I imagine given the nature of the holy mountain it should be a given but it's still interesting to see it on a map to contrast.
Mount Athos' special status was preserved through centuries of Muslim rule.
For those curious, what this map shows is, essentially, the consequences of the population exchange between Greece and Turkey that happened after the Turkish War for Independence. When 1.2 million Orthodox Greeks were driven out of Turkey and into Greece, and around 300 to 400 thousand Turks and other muslims were driven out of Greece and into Turkey.
A small but important caveat there.
The only criteria for being sent to Greece or Turkey was which religion they followed, not ethnicity.
So it wasn't "Orthodox Greeks" but just Christians who were sent to Greece -and vice versa- which included people of Turkic and other ethnicities who lived in Anatolia for hundreds even thousands of years.
A lot of those who were sent to Greece did not even speak the language. Same for those who were sent to Turkey.
They were Greek Orthodox. Not all Christians.
Nansen’s “races” had been defined by faith tradition: Muslims were henceforth “Turks” and Greek Orthodox Christians became “Greeks.” Greek-speaking Muslims whose ancestors had resided, procreated, traded and worshipped within the new borders of Greece were deemed to be Turks; half a million “Turks” were relocated to their “own” nation, the just-created Republic of Turkey, where they could not even speak the language. At the same time, some 1.5 million Turkish-speaking Greek Orthodox Christians — whose ancestors’ lives within the area now defined as Turkey predated the Roman Empire — were now forcibly relocated to Greece. Religion had become racial identity as families were uprooted, neighborhoods destroyed and trade networks eradicated.
https://merip.org/2013/06/the-greek-turkish-population-exchange/
But yes, Greek Orthodox is a separate sect within Christianity. I should have made that distinction clear.
But to the uninitiated, "Greek Orthodox" implies the person is Greek, whereas in reality it has nothing to do with ethnicity/nationality. So I wanted to keep them separate.
I meant what I wrote. Not all Christians like you said, but specifically Greek Orthodox.
As for ethnicity. Some of them may have been Armenian, but most of them were Greeks. What else should they have been living in Anatolia.
We don't know if most of them were Greek. Like I said, practically the only criteria was religion, not ethnicity.
Of the 1.5 million Christians they sent to Greece, most of them couldn't even speak Greek. We know the majority spoke Turkish. There were some Arabic speakers as well.
Same applies for Muslims that were sent to Turkey.
There is a record of Albanian government lodging a complaint with the League of Nations, who were overseeing this process, that some Muslims who were actually Albanian were being defined as Turks and forced to relinquish their property, simply because they were Muslims.
The fact of the matter remains that the basis for the exchange was religion and not ethnicity.
Most of them most definitely spoke Greek.
Here is the distribution of the Greek speakers in Asia Minor around that time: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Greek_Asia_Minor_dialects.png
Not to mention they categorized "Greek Orthodox" as a community known as "Rum Millet". Some were Turkish speakers in Asia Minor, and also around the Caucasus.
+ethnic cleansing/genocide in Morea
The Greeks delved too greedily and too deep….
music intensifies
And of course ethnic cleansing/genocide in Anatolia.
If you gonna pull the "genocide" card, how about we also talk about the Armenian and Greek Pontic genocides?
All three genocides can (unfortunately) be simultaneously true.
Plus if anything, I feel like we hear a lot more about the genocides against the Armenians and the Anatolian Greeks than we do the Muslims of Greece. Though to be fair, all three of those acts of barbarity are undertalked about in our society
There was no genocide of the Muslims in Greece. However, there was a genocide on Armenians and Pontic Greeks.
And no, the population exchange was not a genocide. It was part of the Lausanne Convention.
That happened and its wrong too. Why did you have to bring whstabiutism into a tragedy.
Clearly that means Greece had a 1 free genocide card...
Too bad the Greece did it first. So if anything Turkey had the card.
Show me an actual statistic or historical mention of an actual genocide in Morea and ill sent you fucking money outside offcourse of the Tripolitsa massacre which was a horrible crime comited by irregular rebel army ,even durign OUR war of independence IT WAS we suffer the most during the Chios and Psara massacres ,but SHOW one mention or a statistic of systemic ethnic cleansing of Muslim in in the Greek sate ,not paramilitary groups doing war crimes a systemic ethnic cleansing a GENOCIDE .
It's strange because EVEN today there a decent about muslims living in Thrace in accordance with the Treaty of Lausanne BUT the Greeks of Constantinople and Imbros and Tenedos got actually etnicily cleansing with state backing pogroms even in Alexandria in Egypt were anti-Greek pogroms but that's ok
Show me an actual statistic or historical mention of an actual genocide in Morea and ill sent you fucking money outside offcourse of the Tripolitsa massacre
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Navarino_massacre&diffonly=true
How much do you owe me?
It's strange because EVEN today there a decent about muslims living in Thrace in accordance with the Treaty of Lausanne BUT the Greeks of Constantinople and Imbros and Tenedos got actually etnicily cleansing with state backing pogroms even in Alexandria in Egypt were anti-Greek pogroms but that's ok
No one is saying those are Ok, people are just saying both were wrong.
Were the Haitian rebels and France empire both equaly wrong ?
Also an informal militia massacring 3.000 Turks is awful BUT not an act of genocide on the other hand in Chios alone up to 100,000 Greeks were killed or enslaved so wtf are you talking about man should we had not rebel ? or be a bit more gentle against our opperosrs for 400 years maybe but when the actual Ottoman state responded with the actual destraction of an island and then did the same in Psara 17.000 greeks there then wtf are waffling about.
It's not a whataboutism since you haven't responded me and not it's not the fucking same thing and oppressed people when they rise up mostly led by iregular militias of people who were living as bandits may do some wrong things it happens in every violent revolution but a state commiting the systematic ethnic cleasing of a people is an actual genocide which is the thing i'm asking you about.
And again theres a diference beetween the Greek militia masscaring the turks of the city they just took with the Ottoman empire sending an army specifically in Chios and Psara and Kasos to enslave and massacre the civilian population, in Chios alone more Greeks died than than Turks and Albanians in the whole of Morea ,also the citys and fortresses in Morea like Tripoli that populated by Turks were actual colonial projects settled there by them to control the nativa population so yeah i also view as an act of decolonization .
You get that the Ottoman Empire was not a benevolent Turko-Roman confederation ? the Greeks rose up against an opresive colonial state and yes some of them in the beginning when the militias were less controled commited some awful actions but not in the systmeic way of the Turkish state and with their cause in the of the day being a just one the liberation of their people.
It doesn't matter if the govt does it or militias do it. Acts of genocides are acts of genocide. You considered Tripolitsa to be an act of a genocide. Why aren't the others.
How much do you owe me.
i don't i consider it to be a massacred and brave decolonization
So what do you consider Tripolista. It's the exact same thing. Even if you wanna consider it deconolization, it's still, by definition a genocide too.
If you consider killing babies and women decolonialization, there's a dope website for you.
You considered Tripolista to be an act of genocide in your last comment. These were the same. You owe me money. How much money do you owe me.
How about no because this is a thread about a map of Greece?
Yes thats what genocide is ....
Bro you forgot that only if ‘European/Christian/Jews’ getting killed will be considered genocide. If Muslims/middle easterners or other Asians, you can kill as much as you can it will be considered as ‘Collateral Damage’ 👍
Armenian and Rwandan genocides are two of the most famous genocides. There are countless examples of genocides against non Europeans lmao you’re just stupid
Got a pretty long list of recent genocides I could think of seems fairly balanced.
Christian European and Jews? Holocaust, Assyrian Christians, Armenians, Jews from Arab countries, Ukrainians, poles, pontic Greeks, serbs
Then you got, Khmer, Rwanda, circasia, Romani, Uighurs, Bosnians, rohingya, Tibet, Timor Somalia Congo.
call it collateral damage and then turn around and dance on the graves of the civilians that were massacred
Israel approves this message 👍
Correction: The Turks and other Muslims of Western Thrace were exempted from this transfer as were the Greeks of Constantinople (Istanbul) and the Aegean Islands of Imbros (Gökçeada) and Tenedos (Bozcaada).
Correct. Just to add though: They were given the choice to go or to stay. So "exempted" didn't mean they had to stay.
You could definitely do an intense miniseries on this
Turks in southern Greece were largely either massacred or forced to migrate during the Greek War of Independence. Some of the people in the north migrated during the Balkan Wars. This is why there are so few Turks in the population swap.
Why are there so many muslims in those 2 provinces?
The Treaty of Lausanne excluded the Western Thrace and Istanbul.
That's why the Christian population in Istanbul is huge.
I've been told it's not as huge in Istanbul anymore (if we're thinking of local/Christian turkish citizens) I think especially after the Istanbul pogrom against the Greek community which sort of spilled to other minority groups to an extent but yeah, definitely much more of a Christian presence than many other areas in Turkey from what I've heard.
That's why the Christian population in Istanbul is huge
Its not huge, even tho Istanbul was excluded from the treaty. Christians faced restrictions and a state sponsored pogrom. So most ended up leaving/being forced out afterwards anyway
You forget past the 1922, Greece kept the Turks in Thrace, but Turkey did a pogrom to the Greeks or Constantinople......
Dont worry he is not forgetful he is a turkish nationalist looking to shit on greece and other balkan countries which ottomans lost as the balkans became independent so no pogroms of that sort took place ever in turkey.
OP has a comment in another thread acknowledging that Turkey also did ethnic cleansing/genocide.
just because the Turks did some fucked up shit doesn't mean we should ignore the fucked up shit the Balkan nations did to turks/muslims
I'm not Turkish. I'm American.
greece and other balkan countries which ottomans lost as the balkans became independent so no pogroms of that sort took place ever in turkey.
Man that's a lot to assume about a person. I admit that Turkey and the Ottoman empire committed horrible acts on the Armenians and various ethnic groups in the Balkans.
I just don't believe that should excuse or minimize the various Muslims and turks that were ethnically cleansed in the Balkans. Both are wrong.
Why do you have an issue with me saying ethnic cleansing is bad?
Why do you have an issue with me saying ethnic cleansing is bad?
Because unfortunately for Reddit westoids, the genocide of 1.5 million Armenians should be the headline of every Turkish mention for the next 1000 years if possible, but the murder, genocide and forced displacement of nearly 6 million Balkan Muslims should never be acknowledged or even spoken about.
The biggest irony is that those 6 million Balkan Muslims weren't even ethnically Turkish; they were ethnic Romanians, Pomaks, Greeks, Serbs and Bulgarians who happened to be Muslim.
A good chunk of that was Turkish.
"but the murder, genocide and forced displacement of nearly 6 million Balkan Muslims"
When did that happen?
In every ex Ottoman country between their freedom and the collapse of the Ottoman empire.
6 million is a made up number.
your name is apo dude...
I can't speak on the number, i didn't make that claim. But if i understand the claim is around 1 million genocided and 2 million ethnic cleansed.
That's why the Christian population in Istanbul is huge.
2.200-2.500 orthodox Greeks in 2014
The first map and the year is just after the Ottoman hand. In northern present day Greece, Ottoman Turks ruled for as long as 500 years or if you want unbelievable 5 centuries. Orthodox church was safe bet for the population.
Unfortunately it wasn't peaceful one. Similar story in Bulgaria. A lot of ethnic Turks were exiled. It was devastating for people to leave their lives and everything they have behind. But in Balkans tragedies are overlooked mostly.
Not just exiled, brutally murdered in many cases.
It's true, it's funny the amount of Muslims killed in the Balkans after the collapse of the Ottoman empire is higher than the population of Greeks killed by Turkey in the population transfer. However the killing of Greeks are labeled as a genocide but the killings of Muslims are labeled as "violence".
Both were ethnic cleansings. Both were wrong.
Go to r/europe and they will celebrate the killings of muslim as "liberation"
It’s happening in this very thread. Terrifying.
They want to repeat the events of the 1930s and 40s but this time it'll be Muslims instead of Jews. History will repeat. We're already seeing fascist govts taking over across the whole of Europe.
this is exactly why I'm very worried about the trending generalizations in the media, people didn't just suddenly start to hate the jews it took a very long time for the hate the erupt, and it wasn't like the fascist came from nowhere, they emerged from the very people themselves
Exactly. Just look at how western media organisations dehumanise Palestinians on a daily basis, framing an imperialist land grab as some sort of religious conflict and painting the Palestinians as evil for being Muslim (conveniently ignoring that many victims in the slaughter are Christian Arabs also).
Then just go to Europe if you dont like it. Period,
I'm sorry that you're blinded by hatred, especially given the hardship many different people in the Balkan region have gone through over the last few decades. I wish Croatia and the wider Balkan region well. Always liked the Croats - especially Luka Modric!
Thank you bro, im not really pissed of, because i dont look in people at that, but i reading stuff like this or that. Now it is how it is and we should all work together for a better future.
But sorry for the comment, you are a bigger men!
No worries mate. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what religion or demographic you are if you're kind to everyone. I've been to plenty of European countries and been treated with kindness. It's just a shame that the people stoking hateful rhetoric are becoming a major force again. Most people are good and just want to live peaceful lives.
The Ottoman Empire was a massive scar on the development of the whole of Southeastern Europe. Of course, its downfall was a liberation for Europeans, no parentheses needed.
That liberation might have had messy consequences for some civilian populations, but as a whole, it is something to be celebrated, yes.
Found one
Sure, what can I say. I won't be reaving for the poor little caliphate.
It's not about the Caliphate brokosevic, it's about celebrating the killing of muslims in the Balkans, which you tried to justify just now.
"Messy consequences" is a weird way to put it
Anti-slavic portmanteau? Not very culturally sensitive of you.
The liberation from the Ottoman Empire was a war. And in that war - shockingly - most Muslims sided with the "Muslim boot on Christian neck" side.
Anti-slavic portmanteau? Not very culturally sensitive of you.
What's insensitive is your total disregard to massacres. But I can't say I'm surprised
Well, there you go. I'll leave you to your hunches regarding certain groups, and I'll keep mine.
Ottoman Empire kept the entire Middle East and North Africa stable for 4 centuries, the barbaric west didn’t take more than a decade to destabilise and destroy the whole region.
If a shariatic theocracy is what is needed to keep those places "stable", let them have it. But I don't remember mentioning them; it is Europe I'm talking about.
I guess occupying another nation with a different religion and language makes them a bit frustrated after a few hundred years...
Doesn't justify wiping villages off the map and murdering families.
By your logic Muslims are justified in genociding Spain.
Nothing justifies genocide and you're sick for doing so.
By your logic Muslims are justified in genociding Spain.
You mean the other way round. It were the Muslims who occupied Spain.
Many native people of Iberia converted to Islam. They were genocided or expelled too.
Islam has no place in europe.
So do you support the Serbian genocides in Bosnia and Kosovo, and the Russian genocides in Crimea, Chechnya, and Circassia?
Im not familiar with those.
But correctly labelling islam like an extremist political ideology, not a religion, would go a long way. Banning building of new mosques, banning hijab, and deporting foreign criminals/criminals eligible for dual citizenship and their dependents would go a long way.
So according to you all of the roughly 2 billion Muslims are terrorists/extemists? Seem like a massive generalisation and frankly insane rhetoric.
You realise theres about 50m Muslims in Europe alone right?
Fundementalist Islam really isnt that different from fundementalist Christianity, its just that Muslims on average are more religous than Christians. But thats not the case everywhere like Christians in Sub-Saharan Africa or Muslims in Eastern Europe and Central Asia.
Muslims aren’t justified to do anything to Spain considering they invaded and conquered Spain. If someone invaded your land you are more than justified in kicking them out.
Oh, if Native Americans started killing all Europeans (and black people too I guess) you would support it then.
Oh so you think Israel has a right to exist right? Same situation there, a lot of Jews have been born in Israel and you are looking at multigenerational families now. You certainly wouldn’t want Jews forced to return to their original country of origin like a lot of people keep mentioning?
Oh so you think Israel has a right to exist right?
Israel has the right to exist, it has no right to displace the Arabs. (Personally, if they were to give the same citizenship rights to Arabs, I would prefer them to occupy all of Palestine to the current situation.) The Greeks had the right to be independent, but they did not have the right to expel the people who had lived there for hundreds of years. Especially considering that the majority of the Muslim population are Greeks who converted to Islam.
It's funny you say that while doing an Internship in the UAE. The British had conquered and invaded the UAE at one point. Christians have no right to be there. Would you feel comfortable with them genociding you? You also are American. Do you think you deserve to be genocided by the Native Americans?
I just wanna understand when genocide is okay and when it isn't. Cause you seem to believe there are times where it is okay and you seem to be profitting off of a time when, according to you, it is not okay.
I was invited as a guest to the UAE, would you consider me a conqueror? And I’m sure you realize British and Americans aren’t the same thing? Unless you think Arabs and Turks are the same? And I would understand if they tried, their situation is miserable, if you’ve ever been on a reservation.
That’s a non statement everyone is profiting off of genocide. So then you are ok with the state of Israel existing then? Because you wouldn’t want the Palestinians to do what the Spanish did and kick them all out and ethnically cleanse it right?
And I’m sure you realize British and Americans aren’t the same thing? Unless you think Arabs and Turks are the same?
You are aware that the genocided against balkan Muslims wasn't just against turks right. Pomaks, Greek muslims, Albanian Muslims, Slaving Muslims and Arab Muslims were victims of the genocide. The genocide was a relgious one not an ethnic one. Many of those Muslims were also invited as educators and scholars to the Balkans as well.
You clearly don't know what happened in these balkan genocides of Muslims because these are fairly apt comparisons. If you didn't see it then maybe you're too uneducated on this topic to speak on it. Study balkan history and we can discuss it afterwards.
And I would understand if they tried, their situation is miserable, if you’ve ever been on a reservation.
That wasn't my question my question was are they justified in killing you, your family, your siblings, your parents because Americans conquered their land. You claimed they were justified. I'm saying they weren't and aren't.
state of Israel existing then? Because you wouldn’t want the Palestinians to do what the Spanish did and kick them all out and ethnically cleanse it right?
I believe that any ethno relgious state is flawed and the state of Israel should be dismantled and turned into a secular non relgious state.
That's not the same thing as an ethnic cleasning. There are many israelis thag don't support the war crimes that the UN security council and international courts have found Israel guilty of comitting and most Israel's want Bibi gone and replaced with a more liberal leader. Israel's don't deserve to die because then party in power sucks. The same way that Muslims in the Balkans didn't deserve to die because the Ottoman empire sucked.
I guess occupying another nation with a different religion and language makes them a bit frustrated after a few hundred years...
MuH OccuPation!
The sad fact is the vast majority of the nearly 6 million Balkan Muslims who were genocided, murdered and forcibly displaced from Greece, Bulgaria, Romania and other parts of the Balkans were not ethnically Turkish. They were ethnic Greeks, Bulgarians, Romanians, Serbs, Pomaks and Macedonians who happened to be Muslim (and were therefore game to kill and murder)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims_during_the_Ottoman_contraction
They had freedom of religion and rights under the Ottoman Empire, they could even join the jannisaries and ottoman administration and obtain high ranks.
Then again, just make a comparaison of the number of christian ethically cleansed or genocided by the Ottomans empire, then by Turkey compared to the number of Muslims and you ll have your answer.
We remember the Armenian Genocide.
During the last decades of Ottoman Empire, muslims killed is given a number of around 2 million. Of course, all Balkan countries participated in this and these weren’t concentrated in one place AND this number can not distinguish between Turk/Pomak/Bosniak/Romani/Albanian or any other muslim ethnic group.
However, it’s useless to pit numbers against each other. The important thing is that the culture and continuity of these people in their homelands has been destroyed. Please note before calling these people invaders, vast majority of these balkan muslims were native converts that were multilingual, they were not colonists as some people would like to see them as to justify the atrocities committed against them.
I'm not defending the Armenian genocide.
Even if you take everything you said into account, it shouldn't justify a genocide of people. That's disgusting. Both were wrong why can't you just say that.
I m just telling you why one is considered worst than the other. Genocide is far worst than ethnic cleansing. Because of the will to destroy the people, not just get ride of it.
There were systematic acts of genocide towards the Muslims in Greece as well.
There were isolated massacres.
And the Turks genocided betwin 300k-900k greeks.
We are talking about 15-40% of the greec population in Turkey.
Once again, one is far worst than the other.
And the Turks genocided betwin 300k-900k greeks.
Evidence for 900k or even 300k
Dont argue with them. This sub is filled with turkish nationalists awaiting to downvote anything said against turkey or muslims they think the ottomans were the best and never carried genocide and even if they did the minorities deserved it then they get surprised Pikachu face when these minorities get their own countries and attack the muslim settlers there in revenge. Cry mfs because muslims have been brutal to greece, bulgaria, spain in their occupation
attack the muslim settlers there in revenge
You think genociding innocent people because their govt 500 years ago conquested you is justified 😬
Not only Armenia,
They fucking waved a war for now over thousand of years. Now it's "silent".
They can come to my house, fuck up my granddad and i should shake their hands. Laughing in croatian!
My family emigrated from Bulgaria. People here tasted Ottoman "stewarsdship" too.
Double standards
Why do you use the term ethnic cleansing and not the term genocide?
Because it was a mix of genocides and ethnic cleansings. Not all ethnic cleansings are genocides, but all Genocides are ethnic cleansings.
It's just more fair to label it as an ethnic cleansing so it leaves no room for criticism.
While the Greek side of the population transfer wasn't always pretty, I do think that the Greek, Armenian, and Assyrian genocides really do merit the title. Most Greek units showed a professionalism in supervising the population exchange that few Turkish units did. The estimates of the civilian death toll among the Greeks is 100x as high as the estimates for Turkish civilians.
They resettled to the empty homes and businesses where the Armenians magically disappeared from
Worth saying there are also a lot more —a LOT more— Greeks in Greece than there were when Greece was part of the Ottoman Empire. The ethnic Greeks living in Turkey were driven out. Athens went from a small regional town in the 19th Century to an urban area population of three million, and that was almost all Greek refugees driving up the numbers rather than a prolonged baby boom.
All this is to say even if the Muslim populations had remained steady throughout Greece —and to my understanding many of them chose to go to Turkey in a reverse of the exodus of Greeks leaving Turkey— there still would have been enough 'new' Greeks moving into the country to dramatically lower the percentage of the population that was Muslim.
understanding many of them chose to go to Turkey in a reverse of the exodus of Greeks leaving Turkey
They didnt choose to go. Both Turkey and Greece decided to kicked the respective minority out of the country.
yep the countries literally made an agreement over it.
Well, I think there is no reason to think in numbers. It was not a 100000 go here 100000 go there deal. The deal was Greeks go here, Turks go there...
Not a nice thing but also, worse things happened. Past was the worst...
Greeks go here, Turks go there
It was Greeks go here Muslims go here. Many Muslim Greeks, Muskim Slavs and Muslim Albanians were sent to Turkey and later Culturally Turkified.
Population Transfers were very popular in Eurasian countries from 1914-1950.
I think that the population exchanges and ethno states in the balkans were in error to begin with, the region naturally has a lot of different ethnic groups present, trying to force them each in their respective state just caused a lot of suffering
I agree. Izmir would be a culturally and religiously diverse state if the transfer didn't happen. As would the the Thrace of Greece.
Isn’t this the result of mass forced deportation campaigns?
A mix of mass deportiation and massacres.
Is it ethnic cleaning?...
it's still ethnic cleansing
just a mutual one with international treaties
What does above 30% mean? 35%, 40%, 90%?
30.001%-9001%
I'd love to see this map showing the Christian population of turkey before and after the genocide.
Fairly similar. Pontus and Izmir were mostly Greek, now they're not.
The ethnic cleansing went both way, one just isn't as acknowledged.
Are there any provinces with a sizeable Christian minority like the one in Greece and a 30% Muslim minority?
Not by percentage, but by population.
There are more Christians in Turkey than Muslims in Greece (not including immigrants for both sides).
Edit: there are places where it is close. Mardin is only 75% Muslim and many cities there are majority Christian.
The map is by percentage, so percentage would be an equivalent. Total population is not a true comparison
Mardin is a state with where around 25% of the population are various denominations of Christians. Many cities and Villages in Mardin are Christian Majority.
The reason i mentioned the Population comment is because percentage wouldn't be a fair indicator. Most Christians of Turkey live in Major cities while Greek Muslims live in those 2 regions. It's apples to Oranges.
The official stats about Mardin that I found show 5.7% as of 1965. Has the Christian population exploded there since 65? What's the cause of this rapid increase?
Idk that's just what i found on the Internet.
There's a list of cities that are mostly Christian that ulyou can find here
If you read through the actual demographics for the villages with a majority, nearly each one says they've lost most of their population and are down to 15-20 people. This is not a growing thriving and state supported Christian community.
Like i said, most Christians in Turkey are in Major cities. It's harder to compare specific regions of Turkey to Specific regions of Greece when most Greek Muslims live in 2 underdeveloped regions.
As a person from Turkey I can say that is definetly wrong.
There is no way Christian share of Mardin province is higher than 1%
This source https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/276618 claims it's 2400 people as of 2016
Considering it's decreasing further and the population of Mardin province is 888.874 as of end of 2023.
There is even no way it's just 1%
Well, this is a map subreddit after all. I’m sure the info is all easily available. Want to post it? Although I’d bet it’s on here already, tbh
Based Greece
😬
Based Greece killing Greek people...
Well now i want to see the Turkish one
🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷
Greeks genocide against muslims in the balkans comes to light
Now show the Christian population of Anatolia pre and post formation of Turkey
Would you have said that OP should post this map if he posted your recommended map first?
It's the same population transfer. So in terms of percentage of population it's fairly similar.
Who are the people in the >30% area as of 2020? Are they Muslim Bulgarians or something, or is it another ethnic group entirely
Muslim Turks and a few very small handful of Greek Muslims.
Edit: and a few pomaks
Im surprised their was never an Albanian influence in Corfu
Albanians made up the majority of people in greece before independence all the way down to Arta and athens was predominantly albanian
There are also many Albanians in southern Albania who are Orthodox, so they might be there but not Muslim.
Beautiful
All the Muslims went back to turkey
Nope, some were massacred in Tripolitsa, Navarino, etc.
They also throwed Greeks, Slavs, Albanians etc into the exchange. People who weren't from Turkey to begin with.
Ottoman Empire, religious affiliation identification with the national. muslim Greeks did not identify themselves as Greeks.
There were Greeks in what is now Turkey long before the Turks arrived in the 11th century.
And before that there was the Hittites. What's your point?
You’re missing my point. The commenter I’m responding to made a false statement that Greeks (I don’t know about how long Slavs and Albanians were living in what’s now Turkey) weren’t ‘from Turkey to begin with,’ and my point was that there have been Greeks living in now-Turkey before the Turks arrived.
That's not the point they were making. They were saying that Greece also expelled Muslim greeks, Muslim Slavs and Muslim Albanians.
Thanks for pointing that out. You’re right, I misread the initial comment.
As the other commenter said, I wonder how the Muslim Greeks, Slavs, and Albanians identified themselves. I’m fairly certain the Greek-speaking people living around Trabzon today identify as Turks.
Pontic Greeks refer to themselves as Roman. They call their dialect Romenyka or smth like that.
Many retain an ethnic identity but very few speak their languages. Some are also Turkish nationalists (makes sense somehow I don’t really understand). So you can safely say they are heavily assimilated.
The Hittites were mostly in the interior toward Kurdistan they weren’t on the coasts
No one said that didn't happen
Turks killed Greeks for centuries
There is always hope 🙏
the population exchange between greece and Türkiye must be shown entire
Sokka-Haiku by Wooden-Bass-3287:
The population
Exchange between greece and Türkiye
Must be shown entire
Remember that one time Sokka accidentally used an extra syllable in that Haiku Battle in Ba Sing Se? That was a Sokka Haiku and you just made one.
Now I know why the Turks hate them🤣
What happened to the Muslims Greece? Greece? WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM GREECE
The top comment mentions it was a mix of ethnic cleansing and the population transfer of 1921
Wait WTH why did I get downvoted? I truly don’t get reddit sometimes
Greece is winning 🥇
A lot of death but it worked out for both countries. British India partition should have been like this, partition had a lot of death with no proper framework.
FUCK NO the india Pakistan partition was awful for both countries and destroyed centuries of history and culture. Fuck that. I our family was in Khurja for centuries we ain't leaving. Population transfers on relgious grounds has always been awful. Greece and Turkey would've been better off if it didn't happen..
I mean 90% of Muslims voted for Pakistan in 1946, it only made sense to have a population exchange for those that wanted Pakistan.
2020 was four and a half years ago bruh that ain't now 😭
You gonna flash me your balls or not g?
There're primary school students who probably doesn't know or didn't experience coronavirus.
Missed a spot
Turkish*
Many Muslim Albanians, Muslim Greeks and Muslim Slavs were in the population exchange too.
It's not just Turks.
Majority was Turk.
Yeah but then you'd still be wrong to define them as turks. They were mixed between various ethnic groups. But they had one thing in common, they were Muslims.
You are continuing Greece's 100-year-old policy. You want to name them through Muslim identity, not Turkish, the vast majority of them are Turks. No need to downvoting
You are continuing Greece's 100-year-old policy. You want to name them through Muslim identity, not Turkish, the vast majority of them are Turks. No need to downvoting
Ethnic identity was fluid back then. A family could for example easily be bilingual Bulgarian-Turkish. If they immigrate to Turkey and stop using Bulgarian they would be named Turkish. If they remain in their village and stop using Turkish, they would be Pomak. There is no use trying to ethnically identify people in this period.
Oh. You can see Mount Athos different from the other two peninsulas there.