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Plumber's water heater replacement quote included a lot of costs for "modifications" saying it was for code
The only good thing I got from the home warranty the seller bought for me on my first house was a free (Well, $50 for the service fee) garage door opener replacement; saved like $150-200.
Now, the dishwasher was a joke... two or three $50 service calls and the tech 'making repairs' and I just bought a floor model Bosch for $800 and put it in myself.
Yeah, they’re basically a kick back between the buying and selling agent. The agent often makes a referral fee or commission on the sale of the warranty. In addition to the fact that they almost never warranty anything, if they do actually pay out, the warranty companies often have contracts with large companies that send the absolutely lowest bidder to do the job. They’re also notorious for stiffing or delaying payment to their contractors so many of them do a less than stellar job working on your home.
My first house, I had a home warranty. Day one my garage door wouldn’t close. Home warranty place told me they only cover garages attached to houses and actually told me that there’s pretty much no way they would ever cover anything related to the garage even then.
Yeah, we had one with our current purchase. Thrown in by the seller as an attempt to sweeten the deal for someone who knew they were nonsense.
First week of ownership the one AC stopped cooling. They came out and did a capacitor change. Week later, back again. Came out and said “Yeah, 80 degrees is totally normal operation.”
We paid a new company to come out who identified a large evaporator coil leak and, being honest, told us to call back the company associated with the home warranty as it needed replaced. It was recharged same day. Warranty company’s HVAC goons came back and said they “couldn’t find it, you’re good to go” while standing in an 80+ degree room in the middle of summer and staring at me with a straight face. We quickly got the impression that they didn’t work for us. There could have been a cannon ball sized hole in the HVAC and they would have said it’s normal operation.
I got a condenser replaced by First American but it took some work.
I worked out a side deal with the contractor to buy a matching coil at the same time, only added like $450 which I paid in cash.
I agree. I wouldn't get a home warranty on my own. But since the seller already paid for it I may as well use it whenever it benefits me. It does require going through some hassle - like dealing with inflated quotes and needing to ask redditors' opinions on it.
I'll wait patiently while some dip shit runs here to swear up and down they're worth it. There's always someone defending them but the ratio of successful claims to run around bull shit experience is x:1
My first home came with one and it sounded great to me as someone without any prior experience. First year came and went with no issues and then my garage spring broke. Almost on cue they started calling me to renew and I asked if my spring would be covered under the current expiring policy OR the expanded renewal they were trying to push on me. They said no. I said well that's too bad because I don't have money to renew if I'm paying for home repairs. It's a joke, a scam and while kickbacks are officially illegal for realtors you really need to ask why they still push for them when no one but a few can ever claim they're worth anything.
Local dip shit here. Bought a 1968 house in 2020 with a few appliances getting to be middle aged. So far had an oven range that would randomly turn off when getting to temp, a microwave the buttons stopped working on, a pipe that started leaking and had to be cut out and replaced, and a hot water heater that sprung a leak fixed under warranty with minimal hassle. The pipe leak none of their contractors would pick up the job, but i found my own and got them and their estimate approved, paid out of pocket, and got reimbursed quick. The hot water heater, their guy had another call close to my house when I put my ticket in, so he was at my house a couple hours later to get the repair authorized and had the new water heater installed the next day. Guessing it will be furnace or ac next and will see how those go, but I am satisfied so far. I am not an extended warranty guy either with cars or electronics and usually turn all those down. I have come out ahead with this one though.
Yep. Bring on the contrarians who have nothing better to do with thier lives than make up bullshit stories that oppose anything and everything.
I had a home warranty and used it. But I never renewed it because of the hoops I had to jump through to get reimbursed.
It was clear to me that the home warranty company has no incentive to send someone to do a good job, and the yahoo they sent was clearly someone that was just trying to make a buck off of the home warranty company with no regard for the actual repair. I ended up finding my own people to fix a slab leak, and the home warranty eventually paid out the cost in a reimbursement, but man was it painful to get that resolution.
There is always one. “They replaced my whole house. Every stud. I even got a new AC!”
I do believe that there are some people who stumble into a replacement or repair of something, but you have to wonder what had to catastrophically occur for the warranty company to be like “Well, they got us on this one.” Good on ‘em. I just don’t like it when they proclaim their good luck will reflect the service others can expect to receive.
My aunt got a new ac on a house she bought in Vegas it was like 111 and and the part couldn’t be found so she got a whole new unit. Something similar with her pool heater cost of a new part and labor was more than a new unit.
Well your last sentence is a bit of a two way street. The problem in most of these discussions is that the overwhelming majority refuses to agree that both sides can be true.
we dropped our home warranty when it expired after the first year. It was a complete joke.
We had a pipe crack and leak water that ruined a ceiling below it. the warranty company said they would only cover fixing the pipe itself, not any of the drywall that needed to be replaced by the damage, or any drywall that they would need to cut out to get to the pipe.
so i got to reading more about the warranty i had and it really was pointless. honestly like a lot of warranties now a days.
You called the wrong company - that's an insurance issue, not a warranty issue.
I had a few talks with my agent before talking to the warranty folks and after a few quotes the cost for my repair wasn't as much as the deductible for my insurance. Part of the process of going through the insurance was to talk to the warranty people. thats how i found out that they dont cover as much as they claim they do.
You expected the wrong company to cover the drywall. The warranty company is only responsible for the actual failure, your insurance company would be the one responsible to repair the damage caused by the failure.
My aunts got a new ac, washer, and pool heater for $100 a month and $75 deductible. Some of them are good.
Sounds like he’s running up the bill.
He’s not located the part but knows what modifications it needs? Tell him to get something that’s up to code from the factory?
He's saying he needs to make modifications to the house to bring the house up to code so that he can install a new heater. It's "just" the heater that hasn't been chosen yet. But then something like $446 to modify an expansion tank is itself weird since even if it weren't up to code for some reason, you can buy a whole new one for less than that. Not being able to immediately have a heater available is also kind of suspicious since I can go to a big box store right now and pick one up. Seems like he's looking for the cheapest reconditioned part he can find.
Get another quote, or a couple of them. When they come back much cheaper you can confront him with multiple quotes showing he’s scamming you.
It's their home warranty. They may not let her get a second quote
Building codes change over time. At least as an electrician - if we change something then we’re obligated to bring the rest up to current code.
Indeed.
But (for example), what modifications to a drain pan ($11-25 at Lowes, Home Depot, etc.) would cost $250 to bring it to code?
Drain pan, proper plumbing, float valve shut off and wiring for that plus time and materials can get you to $250 pretty fast.
A drain pan doesn't need "wiring," or a "float," etc., and a drain pan isn't necessary by code unless dripping and such might ruin surrounding areas.
In context (and with many others' experiences), it's probably bill padding.
I guess I've only had water heaters in the attic and those things were needed
Ahhh, OK. I get it.
Yes, but that expansion tank doesn't exist in a vacuum, it has other parts that interact with it, that may require replacement/modification to bring the installation up to current code (or if not done properly the first time, to ANY code).
The fact that the plumber hasn't located the water heater yet isn't necessarily a red flag, given that it is a propane water heater and not a natural gas or electric water heater, so depending on what's common in the OP's area, it might take a bit of time to source one.
I'm not sure where you at but the drain pan cost about $25, piping cost around $20 for the drain pan, expansion tank $60, 2 new lines around $60, new gas line $30 maybe (not sure), 1 roll of blue tape $50, dope $6, I don't think you need recirculating pump. You might need to call someone else.
Edit: Plus some other little things maybe around $60. Since you just replace with a new tank, should not be that much work/parts.
Unless it wasn't installed to code. Thus could be labor for those modifications. Parts and labor to replace the heat itself may be the labor portion l. Insurance won't cover an extra 1000 in labor to intall their heater beyond a certain amount. The Modifications could be required like a drain pan that runs to a pump need to repipe lines to make new parts fit
You have a few options:
- Call the plumbers boss/supervisor and explain your concern (if it's not a sole operation)
- Get an independent quote anyway (I don't like wasting people's time you know you won't use though)
- Call your city/township inspector and ask them if you can bring pictures and discuss the quote with them
- Call insurance company and explain your concern (I don't know this will do much with that company though)
- Bite it and be happy you probably saved a few dollars over what you would have paid without the insurance
Agreed and if you worried about eating someone's time, you can offer to pay for the quote to make it worth their while.
Cash out. They'll send you a check, then use a real plumber. You could even do it yourself if you can change a faucet and an outlet. It's not that hard. Post a picture here and most of us could tell you what it really "needs".
This is it - you have to call and request it but they'll send you a check then find a plumber who doesn't need to do any of the code shit or one that'll do the bare minimum at a low cost.
I did this for an HVAC system because the home warranty company wanted to put in the smallest, cheapest Goodman system they could - and I wanted something properly sized to the house and climate.
This must be the top comment. Cash out and compare. I have recently cashed out $2000 for a 2009 refrigerator that was covered but I refused to repair it with their technicians since they were taking weeks to get the parts. Bought a new one and sent them the invoice above $2000, they sent the check in 2 days.
Read the fine print of the contract. It allows the company to do this. They did it to me and I said you are a thief. Did the replacement myself and even upgraded the hot water heater. Got back the cost of the water heater from AHS. Don't do it.
This happened to me. I cashed it out, so home warranty sent me a check for what they can cover. I then just hired someone else. Went from having $1000 out of pocket with their guy, to $150 out of pocket hiring someone I picked out. Cashing out is the only way these warranty places are good for. Don’t use the company that came to your house if the out of pocket portion is ridiculous
I'm just curious how labor is only $85. Is he working for $20/hr?
Get a couple more quotes. See what they show as being needed to bring the installation up to code. Most warranty companies pay very little to their service contractors, so they tack things on to balance the money out. It might be less expensive for you to pay another contractor to do the work, and see what the warranty company will reimburse you.
Get two more quotes outside of the warranty. Never have trusted those extended warranties, have had too many friends burned by them.
Get a 2nd quote from your own plumber, then if it doesn’t align call the warranty company and explain to them what’s going on see if they’ll send another plumber.
I had an American Home Shield warranty on my house when I bought it.
The drain line was completely blocked with a century of crap.
I called out the plumbers through the warranty 2 times to fix it and all they did was plunger the bathtub both times.
I ended up hiring a handyman to replace the pipe under the house and submitted the receipt to the insurance company.
They refused to pay because I didn’t go through them.
Fuck those guys.
YSK that most of the time, the service companies that are dispatched by the “warranty” company are actually owned by the warranty company.
I've never seen a service company owned by a home warranty company.
The warranty companies have been making it a point to buy up many long-established local companies whose owners are ready to retire and cash out.
If there’s a well known “local” service company in your city, usually with some old dude’s name on it, the chances are very good that it’s owned by a home warranty company.
In Kansas City, for example, the long-established Bob Hamilton Plumbing, Roger the Plumber, both those companies were acquired by American Home Shield recently, and those weren’t the first. Frontier Service Partners has acquired several plumbing, mechanical, and electrical contractors. FSP is owned by Canadian PE firm Imperial Capital.
AHS was itself owned by ServiceMaster from 1989 until spun off into Frontdoor Inc in 2018, and now FrontDoor owns not only AHS but also Landmark Home Warranty and OneGuard.
If your service provider has much more than about half a dozen trucks, chances are very good that they are owned by a large PE firm or one of the “warranty”companies.
Interesting. I'm in two markets and that hasn't happened here yet, but it makes complete sense.
It greatly benefits the service companies to be wholly owned by the “warranty” company and vice versa.
At the end of the day, a “home warranty” is just a service contract backed by an insurance product.
I don’t expect it will be long before they start buying up appliance logistics companies. Although the big player in that space right now is the former Sears Logistics operation which is now owned by Costco. If you buy your appliance from any big box store, chances are it’s being delivered by Costco.
This is pretty typical of warranty work. Those quotes are absolutely padded, and definitely ripping you off. $250 for permits? I would throw the guy out.
$250 for permits is reasonable. Assuming they file a permit and have it inspected. But we know that is rare.
I didnt mean that the permits were my tipping point. In my area, permits would likely not be required to replace a water heater, and a permit for a small plumbing job would t be $250 either. Obviously, in some areas that’s different. But this guy is trying to rip OP.
You don't need to permit a water heater replacement
B.S., big time.
E.g., what modifications to a drain pan ($11-25 at Lowes, Home Depot, etc.) would cost $250?
A drain pan is literally just a pan placed underneath the water heater. It has a hole in the side for water to run out or for you to attach a hose through for water to run out.
Dude is scaring you with "code" and padding the bill.
Here's the code:
504.7 Required pan. Where a storage tank-type water heater or a hot water storage tank is installed in a location where water leakage from the tank will cause damage, the tank shall be installed in a pan constructed of one of the following:
Galvanized steel or aluminum of not less than 0.0236 inch (0.6010 mm) in thickness.
Plastic not less than 0.036 inch (0.9 mm) in thickness.
Other approved materials.
A plastic pan shall not be installed beneath a gas-fired water heater.
504.7.1 Pan size and drain. The pan shall be not less than 11/2 inches (38 mm) in depth and shall be of sufficient size and shape to receive all dripping or condensate from the tank or water heater.
The pan shall be drained by an indirect waste pipe having a diameter of not less than 3/4 inch (19 mm).
Piping for safety pan drains shall be of those materials listed in Table 605.4.
Unless you've got a plastic one under a gas WH, any pan you purchase at Big Box Blue or Big Box Orange is gonna be fine.
This is pure B.S.
Without knowing what's actually going on, that $250 could be complete BS or completely legit. For all we know, they might not have any plumbing to the drain pan (or no drain pan at all currently, so the plumber will have to run the drain pipe to where it is legal to dump it).
I had a water heater get replaced by a warranty company. Had to pay $500 to have an expansion tank added. Seems like you are getting nickel-and-dimed.
Went with their guy, but my company allows me to get outside estimates, too.
Be careful. Some of the service people working with home warranty companies are shady all on their own. I had a home warranty. Called the home warranty company up when my HVAC had a problem. The last owners had just replaced the HVAC system 2-3 years before I bought the house. The problem was the controller board was fried, this slub comes down from the attic and tells me that there is no controller board and he would have to install one. Unbeknownst to him, this was not my first home, I happened to have the number for the company that installed the system. I called that company, and they came out and said the issue was a few resistors were blown and the board had to be replaced. I had the company replace the board. I contacted the home warranty company and blasted them for sending the shady guy out the first time. I sent them pictures of the non-existent controller board. The warranty company reimbursed me what I paid out of pocket.
So again, be careful with the contractors sent by the home warranty company. I did not renew the warranty and just pay myself the money I would pay them to manage repairs.
If you decide to accept the quote, hold the plumber accountable for the permitting/inspection. I had a water heater replaced and paid for permits as part of the agreed upon price. After the install, I checked the city's permit site, and low and behold, nothing for my address. They never pulled the permit. I asked the plumber about it and they played dumb. I kept on them until they pulled a permit and had it inspected. Of course it failed and they needed to come back and correct a few things, then it was finally approved.
I mainly pressed so hard because I was selling my home soon, but it was also the point. I paid for that and didn't get it.
Plumber is aware of how warranty works and is shifting $1k max to them.
I own rentals so have to do these fairly often. On something like my personal house, if there was a failure of mine (it's 19yrs old now so probably soon) I would just replace it myself in about an hour. On the rentals the ones my property manager's handyman does I get billed $250 total. Lowe's does installs for $450 (they said price is high because they get permits and include expansion tank). I've hired some out myself for $150-200 or so previously, but I only hire out if tank is clogged and need more muscle to get it out. Permits are $50 in my location but most people skip it.
Retired plumber who did work for a couple warranty companies.Of course they are going to try to run up bill.One of the key things they do involves “normal wear and tear”.It was up to me to inspect and report to them for the ok.After a couple times of giving my honest appraisal and getting turned down I learned to play their game.My motivation for doing that was a lot of these calls are late night and I’d rather get the customer a new water heater then do an evaluation after driving booku miles in the middle of the night and just having to drive home.I 100 percent believe the water heaters i replaced was the right call
Water heaters are a fairly simple replacement. Even gas/propane. It's totally within the average persons ability to perform and I'd say just do it yourself.
lol. No it’s not. Do not do this. If you fuck up the gas line you die.
You'll notice a leak in the gas line pretty immediately by smell so the chance of that killing you is pretty slim. The exhaust on the other hand, that can kill you. But it's pretty simple too, especially if you're replacing like for like. Maybe it's simple enough for a slightly above average person, I forget just how stupid people really are.
Yeah, no. Plenty of people are unable to smell the additive that they add to the gas to make it noticable, so unless they're actually handy, just have it done. Secondly, whether you like it or not, they know what current code requires when the water heater is replaced, vs you just swapping it out and not doing any of the updates that are needed.
Sounds okay. You can still get a quote from another company. Look for someone who provides free estimates.
I paid like $1100 to put in a new 40 gallon gas water heater. I think it actually came to $1195 or close because I had items that also needed to be brought up to code. My old water heater was 40 years old. I cringe when I hear some of the prices for water heater replacements.
Out of curiosity, how long ago was that?
That sounds very excessive for a home built in 2004.
While it sounds new, lets remember, that was 20 years ago now (yeah, even I still think 1980's when I think of 20 years ago, haha!).
Why do you need a recir pump? That's a luxury item I thought if you want on demand hot water at all times.
I would have the plumber explain, briefly, the need for each modification tbh. Like gas line modification -- is he relocating it for an example, how far and why, etc.
Probably replacing the valve and if there isn't one, adding a sediment trap.
I would call a regular plumber and get a quote outside the warranty. Just because you have the home warranty doesn't mean you have to use it.
If the independent plumber quotes you something way different, them you know something is off, and you can call out the warranty plumber.
Sounds awfully expensive for a bunch of modifications that probably aren't needed. My water heater doesn't even have an expansion tank and my house was built in 2021. I don't remember the training but I was told I didn't need it. My water heater is electric though so that might have something to do with it.
A quick search online shows the expansion tank itself should be less than $100 and even a full kit was only $270 so presumably he could just cut out the old one and put in that kit and it still shouldn't be the >$400 he quoted you.
Do you have a floor drain or sump pit? You shouldn't need a drain pan at all if you do, and it certainly shouldn't need modifying. Maybe I'm wrong about that though but I've always just seen them drain to a sump or the floor if it's nearby
The current plumbing code (obviously, your locality may not be using current, they could be a revision or 2 behind) requires both the expansion tank and a drain pan (yes, even when it's stupid, such as at my house, where there is nothing for it to drain into, since my water heater is in the middle of my house in the hallway).
I wouldn't say that's obvious. Maybe to an expert in the trade it would be. But to the regular jagoff, certainly not obvious which version of code is accepted in a given locality.
So if I understand this correctly, my house with an electric water heater, built in 2021, should have both an expansion tank and a drain pan? Even though it is literally sitting next to the sump pit? How would I determine if that's up to code or if my builder cut corners? I have clearly identified other ways they've cut corners, although not illegal just being cheap, so nothing I could do about that, so it wouldn't surprise me if they tried to bullshit me.
I've never dealt with a home warranty (warned against them, actually), but if you just bought the house, they didn't work on bringing stuff up to code then? When I bought my house, they said they needed to modify the hot water tank to bring it to code.
Depending how recently you bought the house, maybe ask your realtor why things weren't checked for being code compliant before you bought the place? (either answer they give you will help inform as to this guy's quote).
I like the suggestion of taking whatever the house warranty company will give you for the repair, then getting your own repair person to do the work.
Unless they did something (such as replace the water heater before selling the house in this example), as a general rule, they are not required to bring anything up to current code before selling the house, as the water heater was (presumably) installed to code when it was installed, therefore grandfathered in to any future code updates until it has to be done again. Imagine having to rewire your house every 10 years because of changes to the electrical code.
https://up.codes/codes/alabama
Pick your location and check what the code actual is.
lol-Im calling BS. I bought my home 35 years ago and the water heater was old at that time. I had it replaced and there was ZERO need for any 'code modifications'
Hire a different plumber and don't use the warranty. They are 90% worthless. You may be surprised that you're paying full price using the warranty.
There may be work that needs to be done for code reasons. I don't know where you are so I can't comment on that.
These warranties check a box for loans. The only thing that's legit is getting up to 6 locks changed for cheap... Even then you're subject to the wolves. Always get 2 or 3 quotes from reputable places. I always try and get a chain/namebrand in there too for reference.
Even so... I'm redoing all my locks this year, myself XD
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This is why home warranties are a joke. I understand it came with the home, but for future readers: this is why anytime a seller’s agent offers a warranty, assume it means absolutely nothing. It is not a replacement for work that needs done. Almost all of the companies are shady and, even when they do cover something, you have to deal with this sort of fleecing.