User deleted post
I'm seeing a lot of hatred for lonely men online and it's really messing with me
Mental Health/Supportjust quit Reddit
This is the magic bullet, I promise you will never hear this kind of bullshit come from an actual human mouth it’s only online that these people feel like they have licence to say this hateful stuff
Quit social media, I don't regret uninstalling insta at all.
Problem is people my age will think you’re a serial killer if you don’t have insta lol
Honestly, as a serial killer I can't blame em.
Same seeing the hate on Insta was detrimental to my mental health.
I'm off everything but reddit. At least on Reddit it is harder to find rabbit holes to throw yourself in.
Yep. Most people in real life are far more sympathetic towards other people’s plights, you might get some assholes but there are consequences to their actions.
I'm confused at how people can see something is so bad for them and they continue to use it, they have the right idea, get away from toxic feeds.
ive been harassed and gaslit about being single for the longest time tf you mean just quit reddit
This sort of stuff doesn't really come from reddit tbh
I find it helps to follow subs that I actually like, so I don’t get all the bs from popular posts.
Here's something to help.
There is a lot of pressure for us singletons to find a partner. And that pressure is real and inescapable. Because of this that or the other.
You can be a lonely man, you can be someone single and trying to change that situation. You can be fed up with dating culture. You can be all of that and be valid. I agree that the dating space is toxic.
The thing most women like myself hate on. Is pill spaces. Not the single man trying his best and having bad luck. I have empathy for those guys it sucks out here. And if they are earnest and trying and no avail. It sucks. And I am sorry. But what we hate in is Red Pill/Black Pill the outright bitter hatred and misogyny. It's labeled as self help for men but it's really just the misogynistic pipeline. It's pop Evo psychology to explain complex emotional things. Like attraction/romance sex is really complex human behavior. You cannot rationally explain emotional things. And trying to do so so arrogantly and frankly self defeating a lot of woman are just fed up with it.
The thing most women like myself hate on. Is pill spaces.
I distanced myself from a hiking buddy because he started ranting about the pill. We had a good thing going on, climbing mountains together for a year, then one day he vented his break up with me. It could have been fine to listen, but I also had to listen to him say how women are meant to be subjugated, that women are born with an easier life, that men are naturally better at everything, and there is a reason parents prefer sons. Like, what is he thinking saying these things to a woman? He wants me to agree to this shit?
The likes of Oryan Taraban are doing whatever they can to sink their claws into young impressionable men and imbue them with one pill or another. "Oh, I'm just speaking facts. It's Evolutionary Psychology, whoo!" As though women can be boiled down to simple mechanistic behaviors; like there's an algorithm that can be cracked.
The whole thing is inherently predatory, poisoning people's minds so they can prey on their bank accounts.
I feel a lot of that content is poisoning young men's minds. I get the loneliness and the hurt. And they want it to end but the angry vitriol of red pill is only going to leave them more alone. Because it leaves that unaddressed bitterness there. If they get their dream girl how will they treat her? Like an enemy? Like she is guilty of the sins of some terrible women. It just dehumanizes the people you are supposed to love. And turns people into statistics and "well actually" "80/20" and what not. Instead of looking at the person in front of you and their actions. Relationships healthy ones are about compromise. And red pill mindsets leave no room for compromise. I can
It's toxic and I feel like it's what is causing a rift with people. Honestly most online "dating coaches" I think are poisoning the well for both men and women. "If he wanted to he would" is terrible. "Sprinkle Sprinkle" is a business transaction instead of love advice. It is just breeding contempt for everyone and creating new insecurities in seemingly healthy people.
Honestly most online "dating coaches" I think are poisoning the well for both men and women. "If he wanted to he would" is terrible. "Sprinkle Sprinkle" is a business transaction instead of love advice.
One of my biggest realizations as I entered my 20s was just how superficial and transactional relationships have become. It was this kinda, "wait no, I'm not lonely because I'm forced to be, I'm lonely because I don't want to participate in this culture" thing if that makes sense. Like the framing of things of what they could do for you, or what you could do for them just kinda grinded me down internally in a way I couldn't quite make sense of.
Because fundamentally I really disliked that kind of dynamic, it recharactarizes everything in a relationship, me doing something for someone for no real reason other than I cared turned into an expectation somehow, and it makes others either expect those acts, or grow suspicious of their intentions.
At the end of the day what I really wanted was a partner, an equal-mutual partner where things weren't built off of transaction, but just kinda accepting each other for who they are. Where doing things purely out of love was just normal. Where communication was normal, and not some game of aggrevated one-upmanship. Where mutual vulnerability could happen, where the "rock" wasn't just one person, but both of them holding each other up.
It was this really insightful moment precisely because it allowed me to look around, and realize that even if I did suddenly hop into a relationship with someone I found attractive, I would still find it to be a hollow performance just for appearances sake. Which really helped my previous insecurities.
Unfortunately alleviation of insecurities quickly turned to confusion, as I then had to figure out the complex problem of "How do you find people you could actually trust, and how do you know if it's the right time?". Small steps, but at least I wasn't doubting myself nor was I quite as jaded as before.
I think there's a lot of guys out there grappling with similar contradictions in their heads who are immensely dissatisfied with their social lives. Rather than reaching some state of acceptance with it though they just become so jaded that hate expressed through scapegoating sets in. They dislike the broader dynamic, but rather than accepting that there are also individuals on both sides of the divide that similarly dislike it, they just generalized the entire "other" group or society as a whole.
Thanks for the thoughts. Building on top of the confusion of considerations, what do you think of the idea that one of the cornerstones of loving relationships is need? Because while I agree with your point about accepting others for who they are, I think it’s important in relationships to also work towards accomplishing things, some of which involve you being better and “give and takes”.
I remember reading stories from older generations who married much more out of economic necessity and survival. I won't pretend to know how relationships in the past turned out overall, but I think there is something to be said about how all this choice and freedom to stand by ourselves today seems to push noticeably fewer people to learn how to get along not just in relationships, but in general. Any compromise or negotiation is seen optional because we can always walk away and live by ourselves, so people do under the assumption they can wait to find a better "deal" (person).
After graduating college, I was lucky enough to have landed a great paying job in the Bay Area, but it's extremely expensive here. Fortunately, I had the blessing of having grown up here, so I made the choice to move back home with my family. Although I have never been in a romantic relationship, I feel I am learning a lot of communication skills and little things that would translate over. I am constantly seeing how my parents are imperfect people who can continue to grow, and because I live under their roof, I am held accountable for my actions and treatment of others as well. I could easily afford to rent my own place out in the city, keep my distance, and do the 20’s young-and-free thing at the cost of my savings. But in a way, I see in a long-view fashion that us being together out of necessity is better for everyone. If I want to buy my own home here sooner, I better start sacrificing and saving now. Likewise, they don’t need me day-to-day right now, but as they age, they will need someone to take care of them. Best if that someone is their son. And me being around today as part of the household to do things and enrich our lives in ways which they couldn’t or don’t have time to do themselves makes all our lives better. So you could say a large part of why I first came back was pragmatically and materially motivated, but in time, my appreciation of our relationship has improved and matured because I figured I might as well work to make it enjoyable.
Writing this out, I guess what I explained is a huge reason why I feel disconnected from online dating culture and the more mainstream social activities with people my age. There is little focus on the idea that you will be suffer no matter what path in life you take, so you might as well choose your burden and build meaningful things over a long period of time where you become a part of something bigger than yourself. If anything, it seems to be about exploring the world (with disposable income), having fun in the moment, and impressing others.
These grifters are picking on insecure people, telling them that if they just do XYZ it will fix things, and if it doesn’t work then you’re just stupid/lazy/weak, etc. this making these people more insecure and clinging onto this grift in the hopes that it will make them better.
It’s like the worst parts of the self-help industry, it’s just monetizing on pain in an awful feedback loop.
I get the loneliness and the hurt. And they want it to end but the angry vitriol of red pill is only going to leave them more alone. Because it leaves that unaddressed bitterness there.
I think it's the other way around.
The red pill is going to help men get women, but only to the extent of casual sex. The red pill is absolutely going to destroy any hope of men having long term relationships with women.
And red pill men are gonna hurt women, which is gonna make women swear off dating, which is gonna lead to more overall loneliness for both sexes.
Imo, the red pill is a direct consequence of hook up culture. When you teach men that their masculinity comes their sexual promiscuity, many men will sacrifice anything to attain it.
Wonderful and normal takes like this are a breath of fresh air. Real, everyday life is just flat out not like the vitriolic takes that a few vocal people make online. It's like pulling out a microscope and looking at an isolated colony of extremophiles and believing the entire world is exactly like that. There's more than one issues with that, but it always seems to come with some very exaggerated lack of perspective.
I've been "alone" for my entire adult life, but very willingly. I am afraid of forming basically any relationships including friendships because I am ashamed of how I might appear. That's probably got a lot to do with the social expectations of men, but I'm at peace with it.
Incels are mad at how it seems like it's not possible to fix whatever situation their in, so instead of turning that energy inward, which can be either positive or destructive, they turn it outward and blame other people- particularly, and saddeningly women. That has always bothered the fuck out of me because the best people in my life are women, who are almost unanimously incredibly empathetic people who express and understand the hardships of others better than men do. Incels have a fucked up and victimized point of view that inherantly victimizes women, who very frankly have to endure that or some different level of aggression by men for their entire lives.
For that reason, it's hard for me or anyone else for that matter to empathize with incels. They need help and a true male role model to guide them to their own path in life, not a meme cringy "sigma" or "alpha", those things only exist in fiction- not even wolf packs have that heirarchy.
That's the interesting thing about psychology, it's a science that has results that can reliability be reproduced. Just because you don't like it it doesn't make it not true.
I've always hated that stuff but you have to understand how insidious it is. I've been on the internet for a long-ass time and I've seen PUA spaces become MRA spaces become pill spaces become incel spaces become alt-right spaces, along with all their innumerable derivatives and flavors. The fact that there are tiers and networks to this shit and if you are skeptical of one there's another related or pocket community that will embrace and validate you. Some of them even have professionals with credentials in them. Some of them are headed by reputable professionals that decided, over time, to simply cash in and go down the route of validating the sickest members of their communities because it gives them money or notoriety. It's also very easy to fall into that kind of community because THIS one is slightly different from this other, more well-known one and no one else has anything to say about it yet.
I mean, you have to be prepared that can even happen with THIS community or spinoffs of it to become something like this (though I think it's unlikely in this case). It's insane.
If you want to not fall into that by yourself, you kind of have to find the vocal, opposing communities... but that's also kind of no way to be, because then you start internalizing all the unhealthy generalizations that other community makes about members of the opposing one.
Yep, is just a rant about how the world is unfair and women suck cause they want a jacked millionaire dude, blah blah. They never talked about context, what have they tried to improve their dating life and is just an over generalization of really complex behaviors and factors. And it all points out to getting laid = life solved, when the reason one they are not getting laid is because thdy think that is the ultimate solution. Having sex is just consequence of a bunch of stuff, it's a consequence in theory of what could be love, or having really good emotional and conversation skills or a bunch of different factors that can lead to a positive outcome. But I think a bunch of people think that getting laid will make your life better and give you a new found confidence when it's all the way around.
What is black pill?
Could not agree more. As a lonely guy myself, I feel like I'm aware of my own tendencies towards self-pity/self-destructive mindsets, which is exactly why I don't subscribe or follow that kind of content. That being said, I feel for those guys. Not just because of the situation, but because as a frustrated guy myself, this kind of content REALLY gets in your head. Even for someone like me who generally avoids those spaces and only hears their arguments second hand through responses, even I went through a phase where I was like "wait, am I an incel? Are most women out to screw me over? WTF man?!" It sounds stupid, I know, but that's what this stuff does to you. Of course having coworkers who were into this shit didn't help either, so for some people I'm sure it's socially reinforced.
What's important to remember is their frustrations are very real and come from a deep place that's likely boiled for some time. I don't think most guys who fall into that stuff are trying to be sexist or misogynistic. I think it's just a whirl pool that attracts vulnerable people since it speaks to and validates their feelings, and I think some people just get stuck in that. Honestly, it just makes me sad.
it makes me so sad anytime I see assumptions thrown around. I haven’t slept with anyone because I had undiagnosed adhd and I didn’t date because I didn’t want to add more people to let down. But I’m not a dude so i don’t get the hate and assumptions thrown at me
That's the reason you have 19 year Olds freaking out on here acting like their life is over because they don't have sex or friends. Those posts are so destructive to the sanity of our youth. Don't let it get to you. Be happy you aren't 30 regretting having slept with everyone half your life.
Be happy you aren't 30 regretting having slept with everyone half your life.
Who would have regrets from that? (Assuming they didn't catch STD's or AIDS or anything)
you can have sex with the wrong people, ruin relationships, or even regret your first time. At least that's it for me.
How tf do they even find those posts. Someone dm me them because i need context and understanding.
I don’t understand why people get hate for being lonely. Makes no sense. It’s unfair and unjust.
honestly probably just quit Reddit soon. It's really bad for my mental health
That shows a lot of maturity on your part. For me, I left the majority of reddit communities I belong to and now my experience on reddit is much healthier and I spend less time on it.
You should probably just quit Reddit. Twitter was having a really bad effect on me for years, and quitting it was a great thing to do. I replaced it with specific subreddits I want to be a part of, and now Threads, sometimes, although that's only modestly better. It's a good move.
But as for the content of what you're seeing, you are 100% correct that the well is being poisoned by anti-incel sentiments. Remember that people are much more cruel on the internet, because tons of nuance is lost when you're not in-person with someone. When people can see and experience that you're not some kind of asshole, they'll do the work to square their generalizations with the person they're interacting with. You can literally be the person they meet that changes their mind from "All 30yo virgins are creeps" to "Most 30yo virgins are creeps," just by being a normal good dude. This happens automatically; it's the literal cure for internet brain rot.
FWIW, I was on the late bloomer bus -- lost virginity at 25 -- and I have friends who lost theirs around 30. They were not creepy dudes (although one was a bit weird, but in a gentle way) and they all eventually figured it out. Personal growth does eventually work. One nuance to help you understand common opinions about this: It's not your fault that you are where you are, but it's your responsibility to get out of it. Only you can fix this.
I know this is a month old but I just wanted to thank you. You gave me some hope because I'm 22 and haven't even kissed a girl. I see all of these stats that show that I am an outlier and that there is something wrong with me. It really gets me to wonder shit like "What is wrong with me. Why am I different from everyone else? Why can't I just be normal and have normal relationships?"
It's only been fairly recently that I've stopped feeling sorry for myself and have been trying my hardest not to worry about it but it gets hard. So really, thank you for saying this and showing me that maybe things are possible for me. I'm going to start trying to use reddit less and less to see if it helps.
I'm really glad it helped. I know what that's like, to have that "never kissed a girl" status hanging above you that late (I think I was 21 when I kissed someone, but she wouldn't date me, so...). It's terrible.
I just want to add for you specifically that those questions about why things have been different for you do have answers. You don't have to know them yet, but if you do the work of personal growth, you'll find them one day. Oddly enough, the key to understanding that there's nothing wrong with you is understanding how you got the way you are, because the problem is almost certainly what happened to you (or in some cases, what didn't happen to you). Once you have a good grasp of your own story, you can really start to relax into who you are. I had a pair of relationships before answering those questions, but only once I started down that path did I meet my wife.
Your path will be your own, of course. Good luck to you.
Online in general is pretty bad. From what I’ve experienced, I’m considered an “incel” mainly because I’m currently single, and I’m not getting laid.
Personally for me, while that stuff is true, I’m viewing it more along the lines of envy and the person online using an age-old excuse to tear someone else down under the guise of not having sex.
I’m not getting laid currently, that much is true. However, I’m quite happy with myself right now. I’m living on my own, have a lot of free time on my hands now that I’m done with my masters program, I’m working in my career that I love and am passionate about, and other than school loans, I have pretty much everything paid off.
I was called an incel recently because I’m not getting laid (though at the time I was called that, I was), by a person who just didn’t like my opinions about how I approach things in life because I’m a “boomer”.
For the most part, I don’t notice people reaching for straws like that in real life. Online it’s common, but being online brings out the worst in a LOT of people.
What kind of subs do you see that in?
This is what i'd like to know. (Inb4 someone tries to call victim blaming when i want understanding.)
Probably any sub that has even semi-regular discourse about gender. Like the subs focused on men's issues or women's issues.
In the back of my mind i sometimes wonder why people subject themselves to an influx of negativity and i can probably rationalise it, i just don't want to.
Is it really not a sensible thing for people to avoid those places specially if they are empathetic and easily influenced emotionally.
Every Friday on this very sub?
Yeah. It's people dealing with being sexist without addressing that they're being sexist. A lonely male, no romance, and no friends.....must mean they hate women. A lonely woman, no romance, no friends....just a normal woman.
Turn off social media/reddit. go outside.
That just some snowflake online hatred bullshit.
Real people are not like that.
Social media in general is poison, it needs to be used lightly. I only browse a few minutes and not even everyday. There is a reason for the "touch grass" meme, after all
Same bro, same. Feel hated for existing.
Reddit is showing you this because you look at it. That's how the algorithm works. I think quitting is a great idea.
Just remember--if the algorithm shows you a lot of something, that doesn't mean it's "widespread". It just means that the AI figured out that you will stay on the site longer if it shows it to you.
Only something like 1% of reddit users even ever post anything. So even if something *was* "widespread" on Reddit--which, again, just because *you* see it a lot does NOT mean it is "widespread"--but yeah, even if it was "widespread" on Reddit that doesn't mean jack shit when it comes to all the billions of normal people who don't use or post on Reddit.
This!!!
I'm a trans women. The amount of hate we get online is absolutely comical at this point. My best advice deadass leave the internet or make it an echo chamber of your own shit I only use YouTube and occasionally Reddit with friendly subs and after a while I realized the hatred doesn't really exist in the real world I actually forget how prevalent tranphobia is because I see it so much less in my day to day
I wear a WW2 German uniform for airsoft, and even I get nice interactions with it on in real life while people on the internet foam at the mouth. They don't know shit about me as a person, they don't know Kraut is very well liked on and off the field for good reason. (I'm also black so they're probably confused.)
And they don't need to! Fuck 'em.
When I was a teenager (And much heavier) I used to be afraid of public spaces for the potential of winding up on fatpeoplehate when it existed. The internet is false social interaction however it feels as true as the real deal.
Just know they are just as responsible for this decline and social decay as men are, ironically a nation of collective men and women(and of course now supposedly everyone else in between) and yet the blame and chastisement has been towards men .. just regular fucking men who typically shut the fuck up and do their jobs to be the backbone of the infrastructure of society and their families. There is almost complete lack of accountability for this from every other version of supposed human being and the scapegoat ends up being men. I'm going to say this as loud as I can so every one involved all the way to the back can hear the message: WOMEN AND EVERY OTHER SUPPOSED GENDER LACK SINCERE EMPATHY FOR THE COLLECTIVE WELFARE OF MEN IN SOCIETY TO A SOCIOPATHICALLY TERRIFYING DEGREE, THAT IF PERSISTS WILL ABSOLUTELY RUIN THIS COUNTRY. MEN ARE GIVING UP HOLDING UP THE PLATFORM OF THIS CHARADE OF A NATION BY WORKING THEMSELVES TO DEATH FOR A SOCIETY AND ECONOMIC HEIRARCY THAT DOES NOT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THEM OR APPRECIATE THEM. ALL WHILE SUFFERING THE BURDEN OF KNOWING WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY LET GO OF THAT ROPE THAT MEN THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAVE CLUTCHED UNTIL THEIR HANDS BLED TO KEEP A CIVIL WORLD FOR THEIR FAMILIES ALIVE SO THEY MAY NEVER KNOW THE DARKNESS OF A COLD AND DEVOURING REALITY THAT AWAITS US. IT'S NOT A THREAT. IT'S A WARNING.
I for one am moving across the ocean to go somewhere where I might actually feel appreciated and to perhaps have a chance at a joyful life. It might not be the remedy for everyone, but men, I implore you to do what you can for the well-being of your mind, body, and soul.
Lastly, I know this is in reference to the social atmosphere of the US, but the rest of the world sees what's going on in 4K. They know there's something off about what's coming out of this part of world.
Well, regarding your question, probably leaving the internet will help. The internet has a big problem called echo chambers, where you start coming across with people with the same ideas and similar life stories, causing you to spiral into the same train of thought because there's no one or anything that defies your believes and those who do are easy to discard, you choose what you watch so it's easier to just watch what continues with your life narrative.
I understand where you come from, I understand male loneliness is a problem. The echo chamber tho might be a bigger problem. Everyone seem to be complaining about the same thing "I'm 20m virgin no friends, I am ugly, I don't have a job, no one loves me" and barely any context. What have you done to get out of that? What interest you in life besides getting laid? What have you tried? Is just rant after rant with no openness for solutions, just infinet echos if the same problem that a lot of people seem to have but no one seems to care about solutions. If there was a reference to a particular question, or something they tried or saw in a dr k video but seems not to work is way more actionable than the typical rant post. Now, keep in mind that the "hatred" that follows the mentioned posts is because they happen so often they are taking all the space on this subreddit, seems like no one bothers in trying anything or investigating or even wanting a solution, this is just hurtful because it encourages no growth or solution. Also those post tend to over generalize life and how humans interact on daily basis "all women are this, all they want is this" blå blå blå. I hope this is useful
Moderator removed comment
3mo
Moderator removed comment
3mo
Rule #1: Temper your authenticity with compassion
We encourage discussion and disagreement in the subreddit. At the same time, you must offer compassion while being honest about your perspective. It takes more words but hurts fewer people.
Rule #1: Temper your authenticity with compassion
We encourage discussion and disagreement in the subreddit. At the same time, you must offer compassion while being honest about your perspective. It takes more words but hurts fewer people.
I'm personally not convinced that incels are worse than female echo chambers. I believe incels fit a important role in society of fitting the little match girl archetype and making other people feel better about their own insecurities. Now that could make for a good movie. The little match incel... with gambling and hookers.
With that said It would make me rather sad if you die of frostbite while you're using only matches to warm yourself. Realizing reddit is bad for you is quite insightful.
Have you just ignored content that's on popular incel forums? Like how common the call of violence is used as something trivial and the fact that there's even incel forms that ban the word and replace it with crab because they know they are crabs in a barrel holding each other down?
I do not visit popular incel forums, do you? I do not even know what these forums are. I also do not trust people who generalize entire groups, I have different priorities in my life. I'm sorry for not taking enough interest in something you deem important, but I do not intend to change my opinion even if it's not popular.
In the real world most people (and most people are good) will judge you by your values and actions rather than your attributes. As long as you don't hate women, feel spiteful, or seek constant pity, you'll be fine. People are just vocal about what is louder online, which are the incels.
The internet hates everyone 😭😭 Im sorry it’s burdening you I hope you can ignore the noise and focus on living your life!
Well, those people who criticize lonely man are generalizing it, especially by painting them all as incels, like you said. That's not true of you, or of a lot of good people in this subreddit.
I think there are two sides to the problem. It's wrong of these people to generalize, and they should do better, but you have no control over them. It's also not good to accept all their criticism as truth, especially when you've been working really hard on it. This part is not easy, but you might be able to control.
The thing that seems the most important in this case is self esteem. If you've been doing a lot in order to fix it, continue doing that, but also work on being proud of what you've done so far. Don't let random people who you've never seen in your life build your truth for you.
Good luck, from another random person you've never seen in your life lol
People attack things they don't understand. Double that sentiment online.
1 missing reply
Thank you for posting on r/Healthygamergg! This subreddit is intended as an online community and resource platform to support people in their journey toward mental wellness. With that said, please be aware that support from other members received on this platform is not a substitute for professional care. Treatment of psychiatric disease requires qualified individuals, and comments that try to diagnose others should be reported under Rule 10 to ensure the safety and wellbeing of the community. If you are in immediate danger, please call emergency services, or go to your nearest emergency room.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.