There is no ethical gaming under capitalism

1.0y

It's hard because even with indie games and indie companies it isn't always safe. I remember enjoy the game "starbound" a ton with my friends, but now it feels a bit tainted knowing the way that game was handled with its contributors. "Chucklefish" used to be a go to for me, but I'm a bit more cautious of them now. Though idk if I'll stay away from them entirely. I am glad Stardew Valley went solo though.

For companies I get a good impression from "Supergiant Games" seems good to me, though I havent looked into them too much beyond enjoying content. I liked "Bastion" and "Hades" has become a favorite of mine.

I also have a good impression of "Devolver Digital" as they seem to parody the corporate side of gaming, but I haven't look into them extensively either.

Really for me, I just try to be cautious, and ask myself if I want to put money down. Not because of anyone else's ideas, but my own. If I hear of something I'll take whatever happened into consideration. However I'm not going to research every game I want to buy.

I've decided I don't want to give blizzard any money for now (and probably for a while), but I wasn't a hard-core blizzard enjoyer to begin with so it wasn't hard for me to decide that. And when my bf wanted to get back into wow for a bit, I respected his history with the game and how it had made an impact in his life.

You're right when you say gaming is capitalist. So you just have to be mindful of where you put your money for yourself and do what you feel comfortable with. Someone else can always find a problem with what you do, but it's about whether or not you feel comfortable with yourself as your the one who feels your feelings.

prophecyfullfilled

1.0y

I dont know about the others, but apparently Supergiant is MASSIVELY supportive of their workers, not partaking in crunch, making sure their health is good, etc, etc.

Thirsty Sword Lesbian

1.0y

They actually have a policy where employees must take at least 2 weeks off a year, and they have otherwise unlimited time off. And they made hades in 3 years. Every time I want to shame big companies I point at those 20 odd people making fantastic games on time with no bugs and no exploitation or assault. I don't see the point in supporting the behemoths when we have living proof it only harms people, games, and the planet.

1.0y

And the can still come out with AMAZING content. I'm excited for Hades 2 though I still have more stuff I want to do in the first one.

1.0y

Thank you for the thoughtful response! I don’t know much about SuperGiant beyond the game Hades - while I’m on my OW break, I might finally crack into it. Same goes for Cult of the Lamb which I think is published by Devolver.

But yeah, it’s probably too much to expect any business or corporation (of any size, but especially large ones) to be paragons of virtue. At the end of the day, you have to just try your best without stressing over every detail of your purchases.

1.0y

I've worked for companies and small businesses, which taught me that everyone has the capacity to be bad to another. The best you can do it's try to navigate around it and be good to yourself. You know inside you don't have bad intentions, so try not to best yourself up if you feel like you've made a mistake. You are not responsible for other people's actions.

Jello_Raptor

1.0y

It's just that large companies are more strongly incentivized to be bad. Avoiding games from large companies and preferring games from smaller companies is a decent heuristic if you don't want to support predatory practices.

It's a tradeoff, if you want to be more discriminating you have to put in more work and "don't buy from big companies" gets you 90% of the benefit of carefully ethical consumption at 5% of the effort.

I have other disagreements, but they're the sort of ethical discussion that only really works if you actually want to have it. They also probably don't amount to much practical difference.

Also, the best indie games have consistently been better than the best AAA games for ages now. :trollface:

1.0y

I agree. Larger companies have a much higher incentive to be bad. Especially if they are paying more attention to revenue than the people that work for them.

It's more so that I've been surprised with some indie game situations before, however those are much more rare. As well as work experience has shown me that small business owners don't really care about their employees at times.

I have also found indie games to be more favorable. They tend to have a vision of what they want to make rather than a monetization model and it shows. I haven't bought a AAA game in a long time. Idk if Animal Crossing would could but it would be at it's launch (which could honestly be its own story of ethics and selling an unfinished game without a proper road map).

The most I see of AAA games are if someone I like happens to do a let's play. But I most likely wouldn't play them on my own anyways.

imabratinfluence

Enby; Steam & Switch

1.0y

It also seems to me like it's easier to find diverse representation in main characters in indie games.

1.0y

Very true. Indie games are usually driven by some sort of vision, where AAA games are more about catering to the largest demographic which means its much harder to encourage change.

Plus when they do give a different kind of protagonist a chance, they don't give it as much attention, marketing or funding to give it a proper chance. Therefore they tend to miss the mark to the general audience and aren't relieved as well by the public since the all around game isn't as polished. Not always but it happens enough.

Indie have a bit more control in their choices and the vision they want to convey.

Aiyon

1.0y

Wait what happened with chucklefish? I thought they were alright:/ damn

1.0y

There was some fishy (not intended to be a pun but I'm keeping it) tactics which ended up as unpaid labour for content that was put into the game. I don't remember much more than that off the top of my head. I don't think it was credited either?

I believe it came out around when Stardew went solo though I'm not certain.

As you can probably tell I remember it all a bit vaguely lol.

lonecayt

1.0y

Can recommend the Hades documentary by noclip on YouTube - it's in 6 parts and is a really good look into how Supergiant operates as a company. Also really fun to watch!

1.0y

Thanks for the recommendation!! I wasn't actually aware of the doc. I don't watch a lot of doc's but this one sounds up my alley 😊

Steam

1.0y

Taking your joke aside I propose piracy and emulation.

In a microtransation, dlc, abuse laden, pre-ordered exclusive, era of games costing 100+$ I refuse to apologize for stealing digital copies of games.

Chrysoprase88

1.0y

It depends on the developer for me, I'll gladly pay up if it's a smaller developer and they're making the kind of game I want to see more of, not so much when it's one of the big boys, and especially not if it involves no-frills re-releases of games I already bloody paid for.

Thirsty Sword Lesbian

1.0y

Remember it's morally okay to pirate Nintendo games (because they do everything they can to make it so you can't play your own games)

[deleted]

1.0y

Thank God for Jim Steph Sterling 💜

L1LE1

1.0y

Does this include video games from indie game developers perhaps?

Steam

1.0y

9/10 times if I pirate a indie game I end up buying it, despite corporate belief piracy does not effect sales as people who pirate end up buying the game they pirated or would not have purchased the game at all.

L1LE1

1.0y

That's good then. Because there was no indication in your original comment that indicated that there were exceptions in pirating a game.

Steam

1.0y

I didn't want to play myself up as an upstanding person, stealing is stealing. Just because more often then not I go back to buy the game does not mean what I do is morally correct.

B0starr

1.0y

You are stealing nothing. It's digital. Piracy is not morally wrong. But good on you for paying for Indie's afterwards.

L1LE1

1.0y

Tbf, didn't expect you to be or not be morally correct or upstanding.

Moreso curious on whether you personally support paying for games that you feel deserve your money, despite not having to considering that it was already pirated. Because, again, there wasn't any indication of an exception in your original comment.

Steam

1.0y

That's fair, then to reiterate I support paying for games I feel that deserve my money.

And if steamDB is anything to go by alone then apparently I feel that there are enough games worth my money to equate to $4740 lol.

WTFnaller

1.0y

User deleted comment

1.0y

Moderator removed comment

1.0y

gloopiee

League mostly

1.0y

Removed - Hogwarts Legacy is a banned topic .

User deleted comment

1.0y

Dopesmoker402

-9

1.0y

So basically you are a thief. That is the only response. If its like old games that are not available that is something else. But new games you are just a thief who tries to excuse themselves with flimsy morals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5BJVO3PDeQ

Steam

1.0y

Oh no I'm not making a excuse I'm a filthy pirate. Corporation are the ones making it hard to not appear as paragon.

TheDoon

1.0y

You only have to watch Internet Historian's amazing analysis of "No Man's Sky" by HelloGames to get an indepth understanding of this issue.

1.0y

I’ve watched his stuff before- I’ll check it out!

HappyGarden99

1.0y

Very interesting, thank you for this!

TheDoon

1.0y

You are welcome. I hope you also watch his amazing takedown of Bethesda games Fallout 76. It's genius.

montygreen18

Playstation & Switch

1.0y

I haven’t heard anything bad about Guerilla games (makes of Horizon Zero Dawn) and I like that they are openly supportive of the LGBTQ community (even gave Aloy pride facepaint in the second game).

Nicolethedodo

1.0y

Yeah I was thinking about then too

spankenstein

1.0y

Stardew valley welcomes you

piyokochan

1.0y

The creator of stardew valley has like Keanu reeves status. Literally, they are an angel on earth, and somehow still comes back to bless their player base with new updates even years after the game was already released. There is still good in the gaming world!

JamesNinelives

1.0y

Stardew Valley is excellent, but I'm a bit wary of raising people to that kind of status. I know you're probably being somewhat humorous, I just try to manage my expectations when it comes to fellow humans :)

1.0y

I do love me some Stardew Valley. And ConcernedApe seems like just a good bean.

Chrysoprase88

1.0y

Pretty much all of the AAA producers have some major skeletons in their closet, even Nintendo has been going way over the top lately cracking down on modders and content creators. I'm not above buying their games eventually, sometimes all that dirty corpo cash really does get channeled into something good, but it does give me pause, sometimes pausing all the way until it ends up in the 90% off bin. Being beholden to shareholders is never good for creativity, or workplace culture, it always turns into a race to the bottom in pursuit of that mythical infinite growth, and all that extra budget ends up getting used for is CEO bonuses and ever more incremental, barely detectable improvements to the graphics.
In terms of devs I like to actively support, Ghost Ship games is doing some very good things with their pro-social class-shooter Deep Rock Galactic (highly recommended to all the OW refugees out there), I'm really looking forward to what's next for Celeste devs Maddy Thorson and the rest of the team at Extremely OK games, and I'll check out pretty much anything released by Devolver or Supergiant, I can't speak for everyone they've worked with, but they do seem to be legit committed to bringing out unconventional, innovative, beautifully crafted indie games, and I can respect the hell out of that.

mycatisblackandtan

1.0y

Nintendo also has a dodgy history of stealing fanmade ideas after they issue take downs. Like with Mario 35 and while I can't track down the original videos, I do remember the same thing happened with Mario Maker where a fan made something similar and then Nintendo pounced on it.

You can also see creativity being stifled in the Paper Mario franchise, where they can't do super much with existing Mario universe characters anymore. Or just the fact that Paper Mario has basically changed into something unrecognizable at this point.

Ze-Friend-Zone

1.0y

Nintendo has been disappointing to me in the sense they have let some interesting titles fall to the wayside, in favor of releasing content with the same characters. It’s almost too safe and formulaic, which feels ironic because Nintendo was also very forward in trying new things like the Wii.

But how many characters do they have in the super smash bros games that haven’t had a real update in years?

Lurkerantlers

1.0y

I usually arrrgh-matey and emulate until I know them better or fall in love. Except for Fromsoft and Devolver games, I’m usually a day 1 gal for those.

LurkLurkleton

1.0y

AAA? I really can't think of any. They don't get that big without being predatory in this environment.

Sometimes you'll get popular titles produced by small dev teams that are published by corps like Square Enix though.

Dead Cells creator Motion Twin is a workers' cooperative where they all get equal pay and decision making power.

Valve has been pretty consumer friendly but they hardly make games anymore. Idk about behind the scenes.

Broflake-Melter

1.0y

I'd second valve. I know they don't make many games, but half-life alyx is some of the best gaming I've ever experienced, and it came out like 3 years ago.

Thirsty Sword Lesbian

1.0y

Valve is so bad. They are effectively a gambling house for kids these days, and working there is not for the faint of hearts. https://youtu.be/s9aCwCKgkLo

And square Enix is a Japanese company meaning people work way above 40 or even 60 hours a week for a pittance. And lately square Enix's strategy is to kill all their projects so they can sell more NFTs and play to earn games as a service, that they then cancel within 12 months of launch and don't refund micro transactions. They sold their rights to tomb raider and hitman and deus ex so they could focus more on their NFTs.

LurkLurkleton

1.0y

Yeah I meant no praise to Square. I was using them as an example of a bad, large company that employs small not so bad companies to make games.

Thirsty Sword Lesbian

1.0y

Ah, I understand now. I don't think they really do it anymore though? Since they restructured hard to go towards nft.

LurkLurkleton

1.0y

Couldn’t speak authoritatively on it, I haven’ been following them too closely. I know they still employ Deck Nine who has been making the Life is Strange games after Don’t Nod. They just put them on the chopping block recently and made them cut staff. Some of the officers fell on their swords to spare the rank and file.

DitzyDaisyPup

1.0y

Honestly i feel you on the burnout. Lately it's been getting harder and harder to find a gaming company that isn't evil or pulling some scummy move. For example - Do i give up on Valorant because of Riot's toxic workplace controversy, or because they're owned by Tencent? What about skipping the Elden Ring DLC because Fromsoft has pretty brutal crunch times? Even going so far as The Game We Don't Speak About because purchasing it supports a raging, violent transphobe?

i really wish i had a solution, but i don't. i just find that supporting smaller, indie developers, or studios with a proven track record of being decent, but even then it's so confusing because how do you separate out something like the Final Fantasy XIV dev team (Who have been amazing towards both their players and their own team, time and time again) from Square Enix? (An evil, corrupt, anti-consumer corporation.) After all, if money from my game subscription still ends up in Squeenix's pockets, does that not mean i'm indirectly supporting them?

Lol sorry it just made me think for a bit. To answer your question, some of the companies/studios i personally feel good about supporting: TeamCherry, The FFXIV dev team, Supergiant Games, and Grinding Gear Games.

Aiyon

1.0y

The short answer is sadly “none”. You don’t get to AAA status and success without abandoning your morals at least a little. That’s just the nature of capitalism.

That said, there are companies that handle their inevitable issues more gracefully.

mycatisblackandtan

1.0y

I want to say the developer staff over at FFXIV, but they're just the people running the game and not an example of wider company culture. Which given that it's Square Enix, is pretty bad. To the point that Yoko Taro even put the old CEO of SE in as a secret boss in Nier.

Then there's Bioware and the whole saga with Bioware Montreal... Genuinely speaking I can't think of a single AAA developer who doesn't have a skeleton in their closet. Maaaaaaaaaaybe Larian Studios? I don't think I've heard anything bad about them ever, though they skirt the line between AAA and Indie.

1.0y

Wait. Which Nier has the secret boss? I need to look this up! That’s actually kind of hilarious.

mycatisblackandtan

1.0y

Automata!

maybe-jamie

1.0y

If you are looking for another shooter, I have sunk hundreds of hours into Deep Rock Galactic. It is made by Ghost Ship Games, a small Danish studio. Every major update since release has been free and the only Paid DLC are for cosmetic items. The community is incredible, mostly because it is a cooperative game rather than competitive. It pretty often goes on sale, but honestly it is easily worth the normal price of $29.99. Rock and Stone!

WanderingDwarfMiner

1.0y

Rock and Stone forever!

Nicolethedodo

1.0y

Wait it's from a Danish studio?

maybe-jamie

1.0y

yeah, I looked it up one day because I was curious of they have made any other games.

Nicolethedodo

1.0y

Aw that's awesome, I'm always happy to see other Danes in the games industry

(not that i am as i can see how my comment could be viewed that way)

negsan-ka

1.0y

For Karl!

SmilingVamp

Playstation

1.0y

EA hasn't actively murdered a baby in...oh, never mind. Restart the clock.

1.0y

I read an article where EA was literally voted the most hated company in the US. It’s wild.

SmilingVamp

Playstation

1.0y

They really are the worst. I think AT&T is up there with them, but not ahead. You've gotta be bad to beat a cellphone company for the worst.

HappyGecko117

Xbox

1.0y

Idk if it counts as AAA but warframes devs AKA digital extremes are pretty good. They listen to the community. you can trade for the premium currency. They do streams often

Gum_Duster

1.0y

It's not a shooter. But stardew is just a feel good game with a low key creator that cares about their people.

1.0y

Yeah I think ConcernedApe is definitely one of the good ones and must be protected. I have burned a fair number of hours on Stardew. :)

Gum_Duster

1.0y

Oh yeah definitely, glad to see another stardew enthusiast :)

gloopiee

League mostly

1.0y

can't throw a rock without hitting a stardew enthusiast around here :)

greyaria

1.0y

Not AAA, but I'd recommend Terraria for multiplayer, those guys seem pretty solid. But it's a pretty niche game, and if you don't like building/mining, you might not like it.

1.0y

I played some Terraria back in the day! Actually liked it more than Minecraft. Re-Logic has only ever disappointed me when they had to cancel projects- but they were always honest about it, I think. And their continued support for a 10+ year old game is unmatched.

greyaria

1.0y

Hell yeah! If you're ever looking to get back into it, hit me up.

CaptainGigsy

1.0y

I would say Arkane Studios, but their past two games have been stinkers (Deathloop and Redfall). So, honestly? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Bethesda (The studio not the publisher). They get meme'd on for being buggy and Tod Howard's "It just works" but their games always have a certain timeless quality that keeps you going back even after decades have passed. Plus almost all of their single player games develop fantastic modding communities, hell Bethesda is even known to hire/contract certain modders. I think they learned from their mistakes with Fallout 76 and seem to be an overall good studio right now. Also haven't heard many big controversies about them recently like with what you hear about Activision, Blizzard, EA, etc.

thenka

1.0y

There's a lot more chances to get either really good or really bad insights for indie games, and the ratio skews as you go into AAA territory, I feel.

This being said, there's a few studios that I can say from the inside are the least amount of toxic possible for their size. Eidos, the makers of Deus Ex and the new Guardians of the Galaxy games seem pretty good to their workers and their fans, but they aren't doing multiplayer stuff much.

I can also personally vouch for the guys who made Spiritfarer, the vibes are great and the games are too.

Hellodie_W

1.0y

Most AAA game are lame nowadays, I play a lot inde game and they're often better. My last banger are : my time at sandrock, the aquarist, power wash simulator, phasmophobia, song of the Prairie. I also play some classic : l4d2, gears of war (the 5th is actually quite good), monster hunter world, dying light...

imabratinfluence

Enby; Steam & Switch

1.0y

Button City has been fun so far, has lots of nerdy easter eggs, is made by an Indigenous dev, and I haven't heard anything sus about them.

Hellodie_W

1.0y

Might check it, thanks !

Pretztel

1.0y

Ghost Ship Games has one first-person shooter that has a free battle pass, game itself costs about $30, has hundreds upon hundreds of through-gameplay unlockables, and encourages cooperative play. On top of this, there are no micro transactions, and the only things you pay for after purchasing the game are relatively cheap, optional cosmetics that don’t make a difference in how the game operates. But the company does such a good job of listening to its fan base, and avoiding being scummy, that you might feel yourself WANTING to pay for the cosmetic DLCs just to support them.

Those of you who know what I’m talking about know I’m talking Deep Rock Galactic.

ROCK AND STONE!

WanderingDwarfMiner

1.0y

Can I get a Rock and Stone?

Sparus42

1.0y

In terms of AAA, Capcom makes good games and seems to be relatively decent to their staff. They're a big company so they have issues, of course, but nothing outside of the standard ones caused by capitalism.

I_am_thicc

1.0y

Was gonna say this, at least capcom makes games...

Campfire_Sparks

1.0y

ROCK

AND

STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONE

OniTayTay

1.0y

Glumberland is a small game company making a farming sim called Ooblets. They're tiny but they seem cool!

AGarbageWeeb

1.0y

Being an Overwatch fan really makes you FEEL like you have an abusive parent.

1.0y

I feel like I need to show my therapist this comment.

lupislacertus

Steam

1.0y

Paradox Studios, they have a thing for mining DLC, but they also make very rich content filled games. They mostly do "grand strategy games" (a genre they more or less invented), but they also have rpgs and the like. They used to be very committed to their fans and while some sentiment has become more business like, they still have a lot of contact with their fans

Thirsty Sword Lesbian

1.0y

Paradox also engages in boys' club culture with sexual harassment and cover ups by the higher ups. So if it's something you don't want to support, sorry, they're not good at this.

Also grand strategy games predate paradox by more than 20 years. Paradox are one of the few publishers to still push out grand strategy games, but they did not invent it.

lupislacertus

Steam

1.0y

I was not aware of any grand strategy prior to CK, I was under the impression they were all 4x before. (A pedantic distinction, I know, but as a fan of both it is a very real distinction)

Yeah Paradox management is very much at odds versus the developers. The boys club mentality is very real though, idk if they have any women on their staff, like they have too but I have never seen any in interviews etc. Then there was the White Wolf incident a few years back, that was real bad. Paradox management is just a bunch of suits and I think those issues are endemic to corporate culture more then having been native to Paradox.

Now I will say all of my current issues with Paradox are on display here, ever since the suits got more involved, both quality and the community have devolved. CK3 released basically empty, and has some of the most aggressive dlc to date. I honestly think it will be impossible to find a triple A that is faultless, and frankly I think this may extend all the way down to indie, cause of the corrosive nature of both og boys club programming and corporate culture. I personally just find Paradox has less issues than others and is maybe course correcting (or just has good PR)

Personal-Regular-863

1.0y

i mean capitalism does unironically ruin gaming. instead of more games being made because of a passion more are made to make money...

sea of thieves to me is very well made and good development. not much new content comes out if im being honest but i just really appreciate the balance of the game. everyone no matter how much money youve spent or how long youve played has the same equipment and the only monetization so far is skins which i think is valid since they are entirely optional.

stardew valley is a good genuine game that i highly respect. afaik its all made by one guy (who clearly has a passion!) and it really shows through the game.

sadly thats all i can think of. looking forward to how gaming changes under socialism where people can make the games of their dreams without risking their entire life and selling themselves to terrible corporations

p_unch_i

-1

1.0y

looking forward to how gaming changes under socialism where people can make the games of their dreams without risking their entire life and selling themselves to terrible corporations

lmao

Personal-Regular-863

1.0y

if you think thats wrong you know nothing about game development or how capitalism works. we all watch gaming become this shitty money grab and we get less and less quality games made with passion bc you need capital to do something like that. most people literally cannot afford to do that so more often the rich greedy people make games and have access to teams and marketing and such. capitalism ruins video games

Uriel-238

1.0y

So far, Deep Rock Galactic is one of the lifeboat games for Overwatch evacuees and is my go-to game for playing with crew, and so far Ghost Ship Games has been really good about not using manipulative stuff. They do have cosmetic DLC that can be bought (and have been come out with one a season), but most of the fashionable stuff can be attained in-game.

That said, I've dropped playing AAA games entirely, having found a plenty of indie games that put more effort into making spiritual successors that feel right rather than capitalizing on franchises while using standard game design.

kypirioth

1.0y

Idk Bungie seems pretty good for the most part

[deleted]

1.0y

FromSoftware, the makers of Dark Souls and Elden Ring. Their games are never bugged to hell on release, they listen to fans, and their games are so good and replayable that they are genuinely worth the new $70+ price tags many games are getting, yet they still only sell them for $60.