I spent $5,000 on a Prototype that doesn't work

Yeah, that sounds like business to me. Everything costs twice as much and takes twice as long as you think it will. Get ready, this is just your first disappointment. This life of entrepreneurship is nothing but disappointment. Some of us are lucky enough to survive and eventually get a payout that makes it worth it, other people waste huge chunks of their lives and ruin all of their relationships and receive nothing in return. I’ve been one of the “lucky” ones but in 10 years I’ve seen nearly all of my first batch of b2b customers go out of business.

If you plan to pursue making physical products, I would get a free Fusion 360 account and a 3D printer. I have a side business where I manufacture my own products. Mostly CNC machined parts, and do everything in house. Practice making custom things for around the house. You can get decent in a year for very little money. Even if you don’t become great, you can get to 90% on your own. You can always have an industrial designer make a functional product look good, and ready for manufacturing. Feel free to reach out with questions.

For future reference if you get sacked from a job you don't put that on your resume

So what did the freelancer contract say ? Did they do their part?

You didn't spend $5k on a prototype that doesn't work.

You spent $5k on an "introduction to business: developing a product with outside designers who don't give a fuck if it succeeds or fails" course.

It included:

1. Your designer gets paid either way. S/he doesn't care if it doesn't work out.
2. Different people work at different rates, and sometimes the person who charges twice as much works out cheaper because he completes the job in well under half the time.
3. You can't depend on the person you're hiring to know this and explain it to you. Hell, they may not even recognise it in themselves.
4. There are several stages from "idea" to "something we can get to mass production". You can't shortcut these.

In short: I think you got a good deal. Not stupidly cheap, but you paid a fair price and probably learned a lot.

The only fly in the ointment is that running a business includes lots of courses like this and they're usually expensive.

I don’t get it. If you started in December and ended up in June, and you were paying 28$/hour, that’s ~ 178 hours of work, which is a bit more than one month in total. Are you saying that in the span of almost half a year, freelancer charged you a bit more than 5k? Don’t you see a red flag here?

Congratulations. Awesome job on your first step to success. Failures are just the staircase to success. I’m on business #5, age 53 and in my 8th year with my current company and doing pretty well. Perseverance and trust your gut. It won’t be your last mistake, use it as a learning tool. Good luck!

Just a quick read indicates that you were going on to the next phase based on a fully functional prototype being delivered, on time.

Keep in mind, a fully functional prototype is the same as a production release.

For a fully functional prototype, you first have a partially functional prototype. For a partially functional prototype, you first have a non-functional mock-up.

Next time, break the work down into smaller deliverables. Expecting a fully functional prototype out of the gate is a big request, even for a small product.

Read the Mouse Driver Chronicles. They basically just wanted to make a computer mouse that looked like a golf driver head. Even though computer mice existed, and golf drivers existed, and combining them wasn't as complicated as say designing a computer, they went through three iterations before coming up with their first functional prototype, which they only managed to make functional by adding $1.50 in quarters to make it "heavy enough".

And I can't say you underpaid or overpaid. It all depends on what you requested. The truth is, there will always be people that say yes to nearly impossible tasks, because many industries are driven to agreeing with unachievable targets. If you ask for too much while offering too little, the people that can deliver won't bother to respond.

It takes experience to know how much can be achieved with $5000.

You absolutely do not need a fully functional prototype unless you are preparing to go into mass production with a product. And with your business acumen? Yeah, highly unlikely you are at that point.

$5,000 seems like a cheap lesson if you are the kind of person to jump ship before putting on the life vest.

Have you considered connecting with your local "Maker" world?

They are everywhere.

A stainless steel cap is something that a machine shop can make happen.

The process is CAD/CAM drawings which can be created using a number of relatively easy to use apps that also provide 3D renderings to show to prospective customers and investors.

A little research might get you connected with some local resources that can make your prototype happen. Established businesses catering to the "Make"industry are much less likely to put you in that kind of situation.

They can start from a drawing on a napkin if that's all you have.

Hey OP!

Thanks for Sharing your story with us! Just keep going and use all those lessons in future.

Honestly this sounds like a learning experience...

Everything costs more than you expect... and if you aren't careful about laying out detailed expectations for deliverables ahead of time you can very easily end up wasting a lot of time and money clearing stuff up.

Seems simple enough unless the sell price is too low. Stainless is EXPENSIVE. And in low volume you're just machining this. A prototype might cost $500 (depends on the operations). The big problem with engineering is the engineering time. Even under the umbrella of a company, my cost for custom work is $150/hr. Freelance, this would be higher. Engineering firms tend to be around $100/hr to $150/hr, and the difference can be the level of skill you're hiring. It doesn't take a lot of hours to use up $5000 at these rates.

For this project $5000 is probably reasonable for the engineering work and one physical prototype. There may be more costs with iterations, any testing, if this needs to adhere to any food safe regulation, and transition to production. This little thing might be a $20,000 project pretty easy, or more.

Unless you have the skills and are willing to waste your own time, engineering is surprisingly expensive on the front end when you don't have the luxury of doing it yourself.

Also, a good engineer should be able to tell you if the idea is even any good. They can point you to construction options, high level design ideas, basic functionality, and really help you build up a comprehensive design specification for this and lay out the general scope.

I went through the same thing 3 different times with freelancers.

Ended up just buying a CNC machine to do it myself.

At least you learned something.

Interestingly enough my first prototype project was only $450, and was actually viable, but the Developer took the idea, project and my partial work, then turned around and sold it while still accepting payment.

The next prototype for me was a years culmination of work and $30,000, still needed another years of work and probably 10-15k of 3rd party development.

I've been out of the Software/hardware business for 2 years now, but my ideas and past works are firmly entrenched in my mind. I feel like it doesn't make sense to develop products from scratch if you have less than 100K and 1 year to invest.

Now days I'm focused on Marketing and Sales, which isn't super fulfilling from a creators standpoint, but ehh

Tough out there, just keep going and focus on the dollar when things get tough.

Don’t sweat it. Keep up the delusional confidence and just accept that eating shit and having obstacles thrown in front of you is just part and parcel of this path. You’re not gonna die…so it’s all just a game anyway. Have fun and keep moving forward.

So first. The Lean Business Canvas model comes into play. If you can answer and optimize this one page plan, you wouldn’t have built something customers don’t want.

Secondly, I would find a sport (a group of end users of your bottle cap) to give them the product for them to be your cheerleaders and rave about it. Their fans would want to purchase the same bottles to be just like them.

So $28 / hr for 175hrs gets you around $5k. That's about as bottom of the barrel as you can go. My company bills around $135/hr for design engineers, and they make between $45 and $60/hr +benefits depending on experience. Now, that's before anything goes into any of our machining centers / lathes, pcb assembly equipment, or any physical products are created / tested, etc, although there may be some 3d printing. That's pretty much just the design work, and I can't remember the last time that we rushed through a design in 5 weeks (200hrs). Sounds like you're still getting a deal, and are through the majority of the design stage and ready to start prototyping and iterating. I understand they went over budget, but that happens, and usually 2.5x timeline estimate is used when working with new suppliers. Where did they fall on the spectrum of quotes you recieved and what country were they based in?

Your first mistake was using upwork

The main issue is that you hired a freelancer. That’s why you should always work with an agencies! You have a legal security and better control of your project, than with a freelancers.

I’m running an agency and I know what we do if something goes wrong. Each agency have processes and procedures that needs to be followed. Working with freelancer is a gambling.

$5k is cheap for the high-quality prototype, so don’t get me wrong, you got what you paid.

Usually we charge $20k+ but we are providing the guarantee. (and yes, we are not in U.S., I’m assuming in U.S. price would be more than $40k-50k)

Yeah, remember that you are all about your creation, it’s your baby, to others it’s just a hustle. You’ll be okay, just make up agreement more detailed since “working prototype” is rather ambiguous, leaving you more open to the unscrupulous “team member”

Your first mistake was going on sites like upwork.

Do chargebacks on the work, they didn't deliver. I'm going to send you a pm, I've spent around $500k paying people via Upwork and can help you.

Hey so here’s the thing, idk what your thing does but I hire/staff engineers including mechanical engineers.

I had a client put out a prototype part as part of a larger machine. The engine they contracted with ultimately was building 2-3 prototypes a day, 3D printing it, testing, rebuilding etc. the engineer went through 120+ prints in 2 months.

3D cad is powerful but you need IRL physics. Consider that for next time.

Curious…what was the Statement of Work agreed upon by you and the designer? Did you have one with discrete milestones and dates in place?

You have no idea how much this post has helped me steer clear of companies demanding $12,000+ to create a prototype. Because it let me know a simple prototype shouldn't even come near that price.

I was going to pay someone $4,000 on Fiverr saw this post and realized even that price was a ripoff. Went to Alibaba and found a manufacturer charging less than $2,000.

What was the product you were working on?

$5000 software doesn’t work?!?! SHOCKER!!! 🤣

Lol 5K for interactive mockup? I could literally develop entire app for that amout, without prototype just based on input and some design. Of course that depends on scope of project.

Also that timeframe is too much, MVPs get built in less time.

I developed a SAAS product which only cost about $2k and I am just about to break even. I will tell you what nobody will. Sales is everything. Try to sell before you create. Determine what the realistic market size is. It is very hard to get people to pay, even a nominal amount, for a product. I have learned that this is what you have to do everyday. Sell, sell, sell..... its really time consuming.

Pfft. You can have the actual whole app built for that. (Depending).

If your above distinction between what you wanted and what you got was the basis, you got very lucky to get that close.

Dm if you need help an affordable price

This is a very expensive price for such a cheap lesson. But it is a lesson, I guess.

Learn the 3d software yourself, doesn't take too long, and is a useful skill

How much more money to get a fully working prototype, assuming that's possible.

If you get something useful, which you can make and sell, then $5K (even a multiple of that) could be a very good investment. It's not money down the drain if you can get it working. Quite the reverse. The money you've spent may be a bargain.

So can you - or is it technically out of reach?

I have access to an aluminium foundry if you will be looking for a contractor in this material- there is also the option of leasing the die so you don't have to pay the full fee before the product starts to sell- it is located in Poland, but shipping goes worldwide. If you have any questions, give it a go on dm

I am also a product designer, irrespective of price, it literally took a while. I would like to know what was the idea?

May be I can help you understand if this was a scam or real thing.

Just keep working on it, the worst than can happen is living in a car for a few years and being hungry till it works. Better than a day job right?

That's shit. Your YouTube videos are fun by the way though! Good quality.

During that period I distracted myself with making blogs and YouTube Videos about my entrepunerial journey but eventually the haze lifted from my eyes and I stopped the project.

This is the issue. Do you want to be product manufacturer or a blogger?

The people who succeed go all in one thing and work to be the best at it.

I spent 50k on a mould that led to 5k leaking units and 1k unhappy customers…

It’s better to fail with smaller numbers than bigger ones.

Just roll out the faulty product, worked for Elizabeth Holmes /s

Have you verified your market?

Lol

Ok so I’m curious how much time do you think a person saves with your cap?

Me too. Many times. Move on.

I own a software agency and we bill number of hours per milestone/project so this doesn't happen. That being said, we bill higher than those who solely do hourly.

I would say did you even know if there was a TAM for your product? What if you did make it and no one bought it?

I feel you man, I'm 17 and spent $10,000 on a mobile app that will launch soon yes but, that basically is just a way for me to secure VC funding now. Ridiculous how hard it is to run a business, but high risk=higher reward. God Bless man!

Who is making it for you?

I like your optimism although creating physical products is a costly venture which I wouldn't recommend to anyone unless you're using other people's money.

The product agency I worked at would have a team of designers and mechanical engineers working on a small product like this to get a production ready design.

With a professional agency, the process might take 12-24 months minimum. To give you an idea, here's a rough estimate of costs of similar products that I worked on in the past:

Design $10k-$30k | Engineering $30k-50k | Testing $10k-$20k | Initial tooling $10k-20k | Production Tooling $50-$300k (depends on design complexity) |

There are no shortcuts to the production process and no one will even agree to mass manufacture your product unless your quantities are in the thousands of units minimum.

Thats the reason most entrepreneurs will go the software route which is a quickler to get to MVP

I was just quoted 11,000 per day for an engineer to produce me a 3d printable prototype in 7-10 days.

honestly, sounds like you took away all the important lessons we might be able to help with. only question now is what are you gonna do next?

How does this compete with Gatorade squirt sport water bottles that most teams use? Regardless best of luck

I enjoy reading these so I know exactly how to avoid common mistakes.

something like these replacement caps for stainless yeti? or more novel?

https://www.yeti.ca/rambler-bottle-caps.html

Failure is always an option. You have to try to spread out your costs and risk to decrease exposure.

Good learning experience.

A friend and I did the same! Twice! We put more than $30,000 into a website, and later an app that both never worked the way we wanted. What should have been 12 weeks ballooned into 8 months before we called it quits for multiple reasons.

Now, I focus on the cheapest way to get started.

I’m studying product design right now and I don’t know the extent to which you were asking yours to do but being that far over budget seems absurd. After learning the process of designing products so far. And I’ll admit my experience is limited. I can’t wrap my head around why it would cost so much. Unless you have a very complicated product, but even then it’s hard to understand Edit: Continuing what I was saying. I saw you were making a bottle cap of sorts. There is just no way it should take a product designer 178 hours to design that. You could ask for 20 sketches and 10 3D models and of something so simple it should be done in 30hr maybe longer if you want to 3D print maybe even longer if you want a final fully functional prototype with rubber and what ever else. But I could never imagine it taking 178

Here’s some advice, you learned it fairly young that lesson, I learned it when I was 26 but two years later, I started my second business, which was successful. Failures, and holding on to fail Project is just the learning process.

Sorry buddy. 10k down the drain for me.

Yup same almost happened to me, spent over $4k on a freelancer only for them to make crap so I taught myself and made the prototype! Making it again and again really helps clean it up little by little too.

On a bright side you learned millions of dollars worth of lesson in $5k.

Entrepreneurship is a mind set of over coming obstacles and solving problems. To master this you must fail numerous times.

Take this failure of product as success of your business skills.

I refrained from just bashing you but add....

What you did was admirable.... but stupid.

I applaud the effort.... but could have seen the train wreck a mile away.

Congrats for trying and don't give up but at the same time be smart.

Prototype 1 cost 10k

Prototype 2 cost 11k

Prototype 3 cost 3k

Current "prototype cost" for my 4th work is 20k, but it is finally starting to show result and we will go into open alpha in a few weeks, we are in the closed alpha testing right now.

Kept my job the whole time.

Stuck to my mile stone requirements to force them to do work instead when they wine for money.

Fail Fast

Ok, so I have many years experience in the product to market industry.

I know you already know this, but I don't think you have a clue by how much. You did the absolute poster child of what not to do. For literally every step. Not just as an invention, but as business 101. This isn't just "That's business", you literally sabotaged yourself from the get go. I literally study the odds of inventor's success as part of my business. You were banking on the same odds of getting struck by lightening.... Three times. I'm not even exaggerating. The number of glaring knives you stuck in your own back, are too many to list. (I can though if you really need)

But not all is lost.

First, stop. Don't put any more money or time into your idea. Or any for that matter. There is some very basic things to learn first. If you don't learn these basic things first, your next idea is destined to fail as well.

Start with reading the book "The Mom Test". Seriously, that one thing will completely change your idea of business startup. And start you on a trajectory that will start making the largest difference in increasing your chance of success.

Then, switch over to a book called "The Right It". But honestly, all you really need to do is watch this Youtube video of a lecture the author gave. It's like 45 minutes or something, you will find it. But reading the book will help a lot too.

Then "The Lean Startup". Commonly known as the startup entrepreneur's bible.

​

These three books really pin point on a lot of the mistakes you made. You are young, plenty of time to make more mistakes. You learned a lot.

What's more. You actually aren't bad at making Youtube videos. That can really be an asset. Maybe there is a topic you know a lot about you can work on. Not my suggestion, just saying maybe it's an option. But I do think you should focus on product or business ideas that work well with your style of video. It doesn't even have to be an invention. Just a new brand of something existing really. I think you can leverage that strength in a way other's really struggle with. That's an advantage you have. As well as your sales experience. I know you said it wasn't a positive experience, but you have experience. Which honestly, is so much more important than even the idea itself in startup. Something you will learn as you grow. The actual idea, that's not the hard part, or even the important part. It's the process and the strategy that matters the most. And I think you might have a natural ability that can be very valuable there.

Bro

I have a successful business making and selling a bunch of different products. I started at 23 and it's been nearly 20 years now.

I've always been full of ideas for profitable products.

To come up with a good product you need to know more about what you're doing than anybody else in the world. You need to understand the market, understand DFM and make good business decisions.

Your story sounds incredibly dumb to me. You have to think this stuff through!

And you want to design products, but you totally dismiss the advice to learn modeling software because it's not your strongsuit? If you want a chance at succeeding you better learn how to design and build shit ASAP!

I spent 8 on software I had to throw out. Shit happens

Dude, Sunk Cost Fallacy costed me 50K trying to save 16K (life savings). I truly understand what you went through.

This story sounds fishy/fake.

Looks pretty saturated to me: https://www.amazon.com/pop-top-water-bottle/s?k=pop+top+water+bottle&rh=n%3A3395091%2Cp_n_feature_thirteen_browse-bin%3A34113011011&dc&ds=v1%3AQLSwFAl%2FZQUCiT8SvUVPATQTn%2FM8vb8Rhq55mI1IBUs&qid=1690600233&rnid=34112982011&ref=sr_nr_p_n_feature_thirteen_browse-bin_4

I’ve never had a first prototype work. It usually takes dozens of tries. Even if it does work will need to keep prototyping to refine the design

I have a water bottle for biking that has a pull out top using my teeth, then I drink it then I just push it back with my mouth so I don’t really see what is so different from yours.