Trickster should have been able to summon

You can lean into the smoke and mirrors for more effects without having summons and stuff for direct damage. Trickster would have been great for unique debilitations - why they didn’t get the blinding smoke cloud is pretty baffling when thief already gets stealth mode. Maybe something to make monsters cough and choke, acting like a mini stagger / out of stamina effect. Something to make enemies think your ghost is attacking to trick them into a defensive stance. Effects that trigger when your ghost is defeated similar to stout undead or oil slimes when hit with fire. Make your pawns think the enemy has you in their grip so they focus on the one target.

They had a lot of room to add in more mechanics but they stopped really short, I feel.

I wish the class could do damage. Hitting enemies with the censer should do some damage. It doesn’t need to be as high as the other classes, but it shouldn’t be zero.

If sweeping shroud could inflict status effects like sleep or poison that would be nice. Could lock enemies with fear from dragon’s delusion and then poison them with the incense to kill.

🤷 I like playing trickster all things considered but sometimes it feels like you need to have a sorcerer in your party with meteoron for when enemies have specific weak spots and the melee pawns will not prioritize them, like golems.

I wouldn’t have minded a “confuse” skill on the Trickster, vs just ghost aggro.

Archer should have been able to use guns

There's an enemy in Elden Ring called "Perfurmer".

They can create smoke that will ignite and create a chain of explosion after a certain time as well as poison mist.
If at least the Trickster had some similar attacks, it could create a better sense of engagement to participate in damage dealing against monsters.

As it is right now, the trickser is a sleep boring fest!

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I agree it needed something more. no direct damage abilities, but something like illusions that could deal damage or cause enemies to harm themselves like maybe like an illusion of insect swarms to make enemies flail and hurt themselves trying to swat them.

or maybe even like you say temporary summons that deal damage. I'd be game for that. Trickster is fun for a bit once you learn how it operates but it's really ineffective and boring after a few hours from when you figure it out. plus the illusions that are supposed to make enemies jump off cliffs rarely seem to work, or maybe i got unlucky with the AI. The people that tell you it's the best class are probably the same ones that aren't very good at the game. or they're just using the damage boost with pawns that have meteoran to wipe the battlefield with 0 effort, which is peak "why even play the game" imo. like using formless faint on thief is more entertaining/fun than that, and that's also boring as hell. alternatively maybe the people that swear by trickster probably went to battahl under leveled or just struggled with the difficulty and trickster alleviated it by making enemies fight each other. trickster probably works well at low levels or when underleveled but at level or overleveled it's one of the worst if not the worst class.

Anyway the point being I want to like trickster but it's just too ineffective and boring to use except for the censer from sphinx to generate money when farming. if it had something to deal real damage even indirectly it would be infinitely better, I don't like standing there, watching and realizing how garbage the pawn AI actually is lol

id never played with it, but that class can inflict debuff on enemies? more than just agro to your fake smoki character, i mean, torpor, blind or something like this, all i know is that they can buff stats from allies and agro enemies

I don't mind the class exactly as it is except for one thing, Suffocating Shroud as your bread and butter needs to be a DoT. It's got suffocating in the name and if you've ever been on the wrong side of accidently inhaling incense smoke you know exactly what i mean. If i was forced to be narrowed down to one change that's what i'd do. Other than that I like your idea of summons like with the Dragon, i also wouldn't be against it being heavily Status based given how deadly gas can be and what kind of gasses you can make.

I'm just surprised there's no equivalent to D&D's "Phantasmal Killer", which is to say, an illusion that can inflict direct magick damage due to the fright it causes, potentially stopping hearts. What's also missing are things where you inflict poison, torpor, etc., with different incense clouds.

Summoning actual creatures isn't really in theme, I don't think. However, limited mind control, confusion, etc., those kind of things would fit. I suspect the game designers might have had something along the lines of controlling enemies on their drawing board, but it would have been too powerful because you could just run them off cliffs or into the brine.

Some use of fire would also potentially be in theme since you need flame or at least sparks to ignite the censers. Perhaps chain reactions like sowing flammable smoke around the battlefield, and then igniting it, to an effect similar to the sorcerer's Salamander. Or even just igniting one's own or an ally's weapons like the Thief and Mage can.

I don't agree that the vocation shouldn't be able to do any damage whatsoever. There are several things that would make sense and fit its thematic concept.

The class likely won't get any new "tricks" If you'll pardon the pun.

Players who like it think it's fine the way it is, and the many players who don't aren't calling for buffs because they don't have any interest in the class. I agree the summon mechanic would make it interesting though.

I'll say it before, and I'll say it again. Trickster isn't a good class, the AI is just dog shit. They enjoy exploiting the shit AI, not actually playing the class.

The summons suggestion is a good idea. It could stand getting a few skills allowing that. That way, they can play their way, and you can play your way. You won't do direct damage which is faithful to the class, but you can still support in a disjointed way.

The trickster being so rigid in what it does SHOULD have been given the most flexibility in how it does it. It wasn't, and that's the problem. Even if you enjoy it, it's a badly implemented class that ends up being OP because the AI is braindead and the game gets ridiculously easy by the time you get to the class.

Edit: this is also why they're not offering any real rebuttal to your suggestion. Because a few skills with "summons" is a good idea and they know it.

It’s a decent idea but the whole “do no direct damage” thing is dumb. I tried it for like an hour and was immediately annoyed by every enemy encounter taking 2-3x longer.

It should have a permanent summon and/or be a pawn vocation.

I honestly like the Idea of the Trickster.

But I would have preferred if the Illusion and "Pawn Support" stuff where two separate vocations. So that the Trickster would go even harder on enemy manipulation (where your proposed Skill would fit in perfectly) and another vocation that goes hard on the support fantasy.

Call it "Sage" or "Tactician" and give them skills that allow you to direct your pawns more accurately.

The weapon could be a Standard and you'd get a Sweep that's mostly there to get enemies away from you and two basic shouts:

A "Charge" shout that makes your pawns focus on the specific enemy you hit with it and gives them damage buffs and a "Retreat" shout that makes them come to you and gives them defensive ones.

Then the actual Skills could be more narrowly focused Shouts, like a "Go for the Eyes" one that makes Pawns climb the target and gives them bonuses on weakpoint damage.

Nah...just give a necromancer class already

But trickster seems lack purpose or his gameplay is just annoy enemies and even annoy the player

I think trickster shouldve been able to walk on their own illusory floor, and if you get hit you fall. Summong the floor and astral projecting my fart on top of it simply takes too long.

There shouldve also been more ways for enemies to kill each other instead of the one latching fart.

I appreciate it as an experiment just as how I appreciate V in DMC5, but like V in DMC5 I also dont like playing it over playing the other options. I hope they iterate on it and add a bit more to it in the inevitable moon expansion.

Problem with trickster is all it really is is a distraction. They needed to add a bit more to the vocation than just 7 different ways to mess with enemies + a spooky dragon. They had the right idea with the buff it has but Pawn AI isn't reliable enough for the arisen to take a backseat, even with the Magick archer augments. It's definitely fun but it also definitely gets old quick. I can only take so much 'set up and then wait around'.

I would be okay with just making the Tricksters smoke cause poison, ice, tar, or really any debuff. It could be based on the specific censer, just like martial weapons.

Having the basic attacks and abilities do NOTHING was a shitty idea.

Summoner would really be a vocation in itself but rather I think trickster should have been able to buff pawns and debuff enemies. Obviously I mean play into this more than just one skill which can buff pawns damage.

Genuinely what is the value of trickster once you get past the point where ogres flinging themselves off cliffs isn't funny anymore? I feel like it really did need a lot more skills especially when some of the current skills are so lackluster.

Isn't one of the skills to see where enemies are through walls? I mean why is that a thing when stealth is literally nonexistent? That's just a waste of a skill slot lmao

What you're describing is literally Fable's summon mechanic.

I was genuinely so disappointed when I played Trickster. I still enjoy it but it wasn’t nearly what I was hoping for.

Your basically describing a summoner vocational with a master skill of temporary summoning a dragon head to breath fire

Summoning mist monsters to fight would have been sick. Especially because monsters already can fight each other.

I see so many folks calling for changes to the Trickster vocation. I have seen some asking for damage, and other folks asking for heals. But really in my opinion, the Trickster is a tank with alot of control. It's all about keeping the enemy aggro and using that aggro in unique ways. I think they just need to give us more ways to pit other mobs against each other and then improve pawn AI alot.

I wouldn't be opposed to some damage or support skills like heals and such, but I don't necessarily think it needs them.

Here's hoping the game gets a steady stream of QOL and another expansion sized DLC similar to Dark Arisen. Because I am sure they could add a handful of skills to each vocation to give them something new playstyle-wise.

I would actually enjoy if they gave us some vocation exclusive augments that can be used to alter a classes overall playstyle when slotted though.

I like your idea but honestly I think trickster should have had some way to deal damage, trickster has a censer and all this aroma shit, so why not lean into that? Give trickster poison gas and stuff like that, that way you don’t have to rely on braindead pawns and terrain to get your kills, don’t get me wrong killing goblins by making them jump off a cliff is awesome, but realistically how often are you gonna be able to pull that off

All trickster needed was for illusions to be beneficial to allies and detrimental to foes. The wall is a fine example, it blocks enemy movement and vision, but allows allies to pass through. The floor should have been the opposite, enemies fall through, allies can stand on it. Make your ghost AOE buff allies and debilitate enemies base don your enchant or weapon element. Default to a stagger/knockdown overshield for allies and reduction to enmeis.

Frankly with invulnerability, smoke bomb, C4 explosive, ensnare etc.. thief is just a better trickster.

My real gripe with the class is harpies. How tf do you deal with them as trickster lol

I personally really enjoy trickster, but don't think you will find many people who think the class is "fine" as is I hope those voices are loud enough for Capcom to expand on the class themes.

So many things they could have done and still could do...It really is a missed opportunity .

Or like rework the attack button so that for every 2 hits, its smoke would cause the enemy to hit itself or something like that. That way you can still active engage like climb a griffin and disrupt its attack and movements.

I don't think trickster was ever intended to be used by a wider audience.

This would either serve no purpose because it'll just be a fancy replacement for your illusion or change the class into a summoner.

The whole concept of the class is to deal no damage and trick your opponents.

I don't think their intention was to appeal to a broad audience with it

Its great as it is.

nah, Trickster should be open for the its INTENDED Audience