What are your thoughts on this pour. Basically want to rip plywood out and pour. My only worry is the area above each joist cracking. Will be about 2.25" thick.
I read the applicable FAQ(s) and still need helpAs the owner of a 100 year old house who just discovered mill-sawn 2”x6” oak planks imbedded in the original concrete… 1,000,000 percent second this. The wood had become termite hives then massive voids. There was no integrity in the foundation. It took weeks of hard work and thousands of dollars to slice grooves for rebar, fill, float and level the horror show that was wood left in concrete. Some areas were salvaged, most were forsaken.
Idk what that guy did, but his alt account is skybaby218.
I read the post description and said it was a bad idea. Fucking troll.
Funny to question someone’s reading comprehension when it’s you that needs to question yours. Lol
Wow your posts and comments are a riot.
Tell your wife to come to this sub if she needs a polyamorous partner that can read and do concrete. I’m sure plenty of fine gentleman here are willing to give her the mental stimulation she needs.
Torched
Damnnn
Made the poor guy delete his whole fuckin account lmao
BRUH
Stupid fuck
Don’t pour concrete around the floor joists, they will rot and leave voids
Real talk though, if this is an asphalt shingled and T-111 sided shed, the slab would long outlast the shed even with PT embedded.
Also real talk, this is a lazy way of going about the job. And it's the bad lazy where you have to work harder to save work.
Its a shed i build that is basically a small house so yes asphalt shingles and vinyl siding. https://www.reddit.com/r/shedditors/comments/18yir5o/strongman_and_machine_shop_shed_took_about_6/
This wasn't intended to be lazy it was out of curiosity and a few guys i talked to didn't have explicit reasons it wouldn't work they just hadn't done it before, but if the wood rotting is a real issue i will reconsider. Hindsight is 20/20 i should have done a slab to begin with but didn't expect to have heavy machinery that i want to move in.
I would look at digging the corners out and renting some power jacks or toe jacks.. lift the shed up and put it on cribbing at the corners. Place your slab under it. Lower it on to the slab after it cures.
I have lifted 4 story buildings with jacks to cure sins of bad concrete work. If you are handy it can be done.
The answers you get in here are mostly the “correct” answers.
The solution you are seeking totally depends on what you need.
Doing this would work but the wood will rot out and leave voids. Those voids will crack.
But concrete cracks and wood rots, what do you NEED from this slab?
Parking a peterbuilt on it?
Push mower, walk-in man cave?
Are you worried about pouring some concrete patch into cracks/holes in the slab 6 years down the road?
Do you care about demoing the slab someday after the shed is past its usable life?
It all really depends on what you need from the situation
All i need it to do it hold some heavy machining equipment so thats why all these bombproof suggestions im getting seem ridiculous. I dont need to park a peterbuilt on it which is what maybe people are assuming.
What is your definition of "heavy"? The shed doesn't look that large to begin with...
I have a large lathe and knee mill in my garage.
I’m not sure you would be happy parking a 2500lbs lathe on this concrete floor, if one of the feet lands on top one of those voids.
This would be fine imo as long as you don’t point load anything directly on top of the wood/voids.
The other issue is settling, over some time you could see this slab crack into multiple slabs between the wood joists and sink unevenly.
But in my opinion that’s at worst a while down the road.
But when the shed falls apart you’ll be left with an unusable slab
You just lack imagination. It looks like you’d be left with 11 (or some multiple thereof) perfectly usable slabs. You just have to figure out what they’re good for.
In 39 years you can lift them out, line them up and instant sidewalk.
Username indicates good customer service: under-promise, over-deliver.
Seems like it'd be worth it to sawsall out the joists.
I considered this, the only thing i was worried about was the middle of the shed bowing out but i was having a hard time wrapping my head around the forces involved. It may be fine i just wanted to get some opinions on why this wouldn't work.
Got ya. I think I’d reinforce the perimeter board on the outside as a sort of form and cut out the interior. Good luck!
You could try underpinning the walls first, then cut out the floor and pour. Good luck
You could pound in form stakes around the outside to keep the bowing from happening.
Do you think these would be able to hold back ~3 yards of concrete?
I'm not in concrete, I'm a plumber, but form stakes are used on full slabs all the time to hold the forms when pouring. I don't see why they wouldn't here. Check out monolithic pours
pour a 4" (100mm) slab to the left or right and drag the floorless shed onto it, jack it up, saw out the joists and lower it onto the new slab. If the placement of the shed is critical, move it first, then move it back.
Yea moving the shed is not gonna happen. Its not a home depot quick shed. Its a full sized mini house basically. Plus yes the shed cannot be located anywhere else.
pull up the floor sheeting, leave half of the floor joists. Jack up the shed, pour the concrete, lower the shed back down.
I’d remove all flooring, cross-brace the corners and jack entire structure up a foot. Form and pour proper slab (w/ mesh or rebar), set structure back down onto hardened concrete. You could even form in some six inch pony walls to set it onto, giving you freeboard from moisture.
They move houses, you can move a shed. I’m not saying it’s a walk in the park but it is super doable.
I understand that but the costs to move the shed would probably dwarf the costs that just tearing down and rebuilding would.
I can't believe how some people leave ideas that you should never do. Like ever. But you keep referring to it as a mini house. Is it going to be a tiny house? Like with a bathroom? Sounds like you had a simple idea. But as you got to working on it plans changed. Idk. If you're putting in a bathroom or kitchen. If you are you should. Put a slab. 6 inches minimum bigger all the way around it set it down. If not then pour the same size slab with 6 inches minimum around. And remove the sup floor and set it down on the seal plates. The floor joists are pine and will rot pretty fast. Any other way is not how you do. JS.
No i meant that to confer that its not some BS 500lb "red-i-shed" or whatever. Its not that easy to jack up due to the design so i havent even been entertaining those suggestions.
Yes plans changed and want to put heavy machines in there and the floating floor design it is will not work over time.
It might help to know what you're trying to to do, because looking at it I guess it's a shed? You want concrete instead of wood floor?
Well either reddit is dumb or I'm even dumber than i think but it doesn't let you upload images AND text so i couldn't elaborate much.
Yes its a shed that though a series of dumb decisions on my part has become a machine shed and i am worried about the floor sagging.
Remove the plywood and then use the joists to create your joints if you don’t have a concrete saw. Depending on how many you have to remove that is.
You would essentially pour from the wall to the first joint, get it set but not dry. Then remove the joist and pour from the first section to the end of the second joist. Once set remove the next joist and repeat.
This is an interesting concept i didn't think of. Honestly i have no problem removing the joists, i was just worried the shed would splay out if i removed ALL the joists.
It might, that’s why it would be best to keep them in until you are ready to remove them. The concrete will also add a lot of pressure to the outside of the shed which could cause significant bowing at the bottom without the joists holding it in place.
Once the concrete is dry you are free to anchor the shed down on top of it if you wanted
Good point on the added stress of the concrete, i think subconsciously i was thinking about it but it hadn't occurred to me how much stress that would add.
What do you think about cutting the joist down to maybe like 2" high so there's still some support but not as much trapped wood? At the end of the day its a shed floor not a garage so if it develops small voids(after many years) i cant imagine that would be all that detrimental.
How many joists and how far apart are they? Is the shed sitting directly on the ground now or is it on blocks?
Personally I’d remove every joist completely after each section. The perimeter of the shed should be enough to keep it together. You could even anchor the shed to the slab as you go if it seems like it is splitting
11 2x6 joists 16" on center and the perimeter is 2x8s. Only the perimeter is sitting on the ground so middle of the floor is floating which is really the crux of my problem i am worried that sagging will occur with some of the heavier machines i am getting (hindsight is 20/20 should have went concrete to begin with)
That's doable. Can even start on both sides.
organic material will rot, lack of coverage will cause cracks, then expect the sections of floor to settle however they want (likely the way you least prefer)
Good point on each bay acting as an individual slab. Didn't think of that factor
Why? Use it as-is until it needs replacing, tear it down, then pour a slab for the next iteration.
If the floor rots, just replace it with more plywood.
You are doing a lot of work for minimal benefit.
Why? Because i want to? Wasnt really asking for permission i was seeing if anyone had any objections to this and several people have voiced their objections for me review.
I want to do this because i want to move heavy equipment in and the floor wont hold what i need, hence concrete.
Might be a dumb opinion, but you could possibly pull up the sub floor and fill all the voids with a sand or gravel, level it off, then put the sub floor back in place. It'll at least give a more solid base for heavy equipment going in the shed, gravel won't really rot the joists out since it doesn't retain a lot of moisture and can drain easily, and won't leave a slab in place whenever the shed comes down in the future.
That or add more layers of osb on top to strengthen the subfloor
Honestly that was one of our first plans but instead we would have used flowable fill but it got to the point of doing all this work to still end up with wood floors was becoming more glaring
Don’t do this. Wood will rot and there’s not enough thickness to support regular use once it’s rotted and no longer supported by the joists. Heavy equipment that you want to put in there will punch a hole in it easily.
Are you a contractor? It’s a concerning question if you are.
Agreed. Don't think he is. But kudos for throwing it out there. Seems like he started a small project. And ideas started running in his head. And realized he has a problem. I get it.
Thanks for reading between the lines unlike half the people here. I'm just trying to get opinions on how to do it right enough. The shed exists already its just a situation where plans changed and id like to have concrete now.
Brace and Jack the structure up, clean all the shit out from under it, pour the foundation, let cure, reset the shed
I would run some diagonal braces from rat sill to top plate in several spots. They’ll get in the way while pouring but you can work around them. This way you can remove all the floor joists and pour a solid slab
Not a bad idea...i really only need to resist bowing until the concrete cures so i can tapcon it
You should definitely post an update to this.
I feel like for all this work you could just take the floor sheeting off, or even just a strip of it, and then pour some concrete footers under the center of each floor joist. I also suspect they might be able to pour two or three footers under there and then slide another 4 x 4 or 6 x 6 beam across them
You can also add blocking in between your joist and it will increase the load they can take before they sag.
Also, you could just sister some extra joist if you remove all the plywood. If you know where your heavy stuff is going to go, this would be extremely easy, you could just make a few of those floor joists doubles or even triples.
Im going to review some of these things people have said with my concrete guy and see what we think is the best route.
Never considered sistering boards. As it stands i actually really did over build it so it would probably be fine as is but id rather be safe than sorry.
I understand, but sometimes the smartest thing is to run something into the ground before you try to do any overkill and shore it up. The purpose of a shed is for utility so when you put too much extra effort into it you are in a way defeating its purpose in life
Don’t be lazy. Take the joists out and do it right. Otherwise you are going to do it twice.
It was not an attempt to be lazy, i have no problem doing it "right" but i was hoping to get opinions on what is "right enough" for a stupid shed floor.
2.5 inches is not enough depth to develop any real strength. There is a reason the smallest depth of concrete poured is 4” (sidewalks, small concrete pads). The joists will also rot out and will just be voids under the concrete providing no support for the 2.5 inches of concrete above it.
Is soundproofing the main purpose ? If so you could fill between joists (with gravel, argile balls, or vermiculite) through holes in the plywood.
And you could screw 1 or 2 layers of 1/2" gypsum-fiber boards (Fermacell) to add mass on top, which can receive tiles if you want, or any kind of floor finish.
No its to be able to put heavier machines in there. Hindsight is 20/20 and i know i should have done it to begin with but here i am just trying to get some ideas on how i could make it work.
I’d say cut out all the joist, then pour, after concrete has hardened if you are worried about bowing longterm then tapcon the structure to the pad
Im more worried about short term bowing and then bowing when the concrete is being poured. I was going to tapcon it just for wind resistance cause it gets pretty windy here.
Replace the plywood with pressure treated and pour it
Or even put a vapor barrier down and leave it above the top or concrete and cut it with a razor after few weeks after it’s finished
Just burn it down. Start over.
Is there any downside to using vapor barrier? It would be nice to control humidity considering i will have bare steel in there.
Or put backing around the framing, and expansion felt on it set to top of finished concrete all the way around
What is it sitting on now?? It’s got to be sitting on post blocks or something.
Pull the plywood, leave every third or forth joist in place. Jack it up 12-18” with bottle jacks. Place concrete. Give concrete 3+ days to cure. Anchor bottom plate to new concrete, set the building down on the new bottom plate, anchor the studs to the bottom plate.
None of this is easy or simple but it’s the only way you’re going to get what you’re telling us you want, in a form that’s going to last more than a year or two.
Run temporary joists above the proposed floor, you'll really only need them in the middle. Pour. Remove temps.
Not a bad idea...i really only need to resist bowing until the concrete cures so i can tapcon it
If it makes you feel any better, I also did a wooden floor and wish I'd done a concrete pad. At the time I couldn't find anyone who could do it for a reasonable price and I won't DIY concrete.
If I wanted to move it to a concrete pad, I'd build additional structure around the base for support. Detach it from the floor and move it to the side. Pour the pad and place it back on. But maybe there's a better way?
Yea same here, i considered it at the time i built it but figured i didnt need it. Plans changed and here i am.
Honestly ive diyed a few concrete projects to know that i dont know enough hence why i was asking hoping there was some obvious answer i was overlooking.
Wood and concrete don't expand and contract at the same rate
I considered this, I thought about using expansion joint against the walls would be enough. Do you think it may not?
No absolutely will not be enough, don't attempt this idea. To put it bluntly its retarded
Warrizors I think has the best and easiest idea. That's what I
I did this but with 411 gravel. Wetted it, and smoothed it out super nice and everything seems to be doing fine. This was about 6 years ago. Much cheaper than concrete also
I'm in a similar situation, thinking it would be better to only remove and block out the machines floor space and leave walking space floor as is. If your forging that's probably not an option, but for just a mill it's a thought!
This honestly was my last resort option but being a relatively small space id like the ability to rearrange if i get different machines. Any forging or casting id probably do outside regardless haha.
As mentioned wood in the concrete is a less than good idea.
I'd run out and get some long lengths of 4" x schedule 40 PVC pipe, jack up the structure and roll a few of the pipe sections under.
Form and pour the slab correctly. Then roll the structure onto the top of the slab,,,,sort of Egyptian style if you see my meaning? Or is the struct simply too big to do that?
Yes this thing is much too big to move using reasonable tools. Not looking to get riggers involved as that cost would probably dwarf the costs to just rebuild it the way i should have.
Cross brace your walls at diagonal corners along each wall inside along the studs to prevent rocking and a couple to connect opposite walls if you’re worried about bowing but give yourself room to pour. Cut out the floor. On the outside, bolt a 2x12 or 4x4 against the outside wall near the bottom. Run bolts into some studs, especially at corners where 2x’s studs are doubled up. Have the board overhang the length of the shed by at least a foot on each end so you can put bottle jacks underneath the overhang and do this on two opposite walls. This will keep the jacks out of your form work. Raise shed with jacks, form for concrete, pour, and lower back onto slab. Make sure to run a vapor barrier of some sort to separate wood plate from concrete before you drop it in place. I did this with a 12’x18’ shed similar to yours some years ago with no issue.
I'd brace the structure, jack it up, remove floor, move the structure, pour, then move it back and anchor it. Difficult dyi project, but if you have heavy equipment, I assume you've dealt with enough shit to deal with this...
Or if you have the space, build another garage with a concrete floor fit for purpose and use this one as storage. That's what I did.
Did you ever stop and think "why don't they do this all the time"? You Sir are all out of good ideas! Please get a professional to fix this.
Do you ever stop to think "maybe i shouldn't be a cumguzzler" and perhaps provide constructive criticism?
The reason i am asking is because i know they don't do this all the time. I was hoping some of you "professionals" would come up with something clever. Its not like im building a foundation for a skyscraper, i just need something good enough
So you think asking professionals how to do shit wrong will not get comments that you may not like or may even hurt your feelings? And you think you can hurt my feelings by calling me a cumguzzler? I think you should do exactly what you are planning on doing because you are too stupid to do it right anyway. The cumguzzler thing is just between me and your wife. Stay out of that conversation.
Horrible idea.
a couple more layers of ply would give it some serious rigidity.
Wood embedded in concrete is a bad idea for anything beyond a fence post.