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I don't know how you all live like this. This is mental and emotional torture.
What mercy?
At least point the man to the relevant section
They have a fundamental misunderstanding of how any of this works. They need to read the whole thing.
I'm asking you specifically about what you meant about His mercy.
And I’m saying that if you need to ask that, you need a more basic and extensive foundational introduction to Christianity than can be provided in an online forum. So, instead of being consumed with anxiety on a topic you do not understand, you should slow down and go read something.
What is there not to understand?
Eternal conscious torment supposedly exists. That's the problem here. I don't know what information you think exists that will make me okay with this idea.
Then I guess enjoy being miserable? If this is so distressing for you, you could at least try listening to someone saying that you’ve misunderstood the basics and need to actually learn what the Church teaches. If you’d rather do what you’re currently doing, I can’t stop you.
The Catechism is huge. What part specifically should I read?
Preferably all of it
This was half dickish and half real.
Your other comments suggest you don’t really understand the faith well. Also, there is room for disagreement on this subject, as we don’t know who goes to hell and who doesn’t on an individual level (and theoretically, really).
Personally, I hold a hopeful view that the vast majority of people go to heaven. But a lot of people don’t hold that. This topic can get contentious
No, I don't understand it. I've been coming to mass and reading catechism less than 3 weeks.
You should read all of it. It’s so much better to know what the Church actually teaches on a topic.
To address the misunderstandings that lead you here, you should read the Prologue, Part One, and Part Three Section One.
Thank you
Well personally I believe that God is love (as is written in the Bible) and that Jesus came to save everyone (as He said himself) and that God is omnipotent (as is taught in the Creed) so I'm quite hopeful for the salvation of most people.
Love is never divorced from Justice. People go where they want to based on their choices.
Narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Getting downvoted for quoting Jesus is hysterical.
Agreed. Not to mention “not all who say lord, lord, will see eternal life” not a direct quote but the sentiment is the same.
Edit: Mathew 7:21
What evidence do you have that Jesus is specifically talking about eternal destiny here?
Jesus gives us a way to avoid all of that. Pray for God to give you peace, and possibly get therapy if you believe it's needed.
And what if an individual does not take advantage of Jesus's way and dies a non-Catholic?
It depends on how much knowledge they had. If they didn't know they were supposed to be Catholic, they still have a chance at getting into purgatory, especially if they follow an Abrahamic religion.
Most people don't know they're supposed to be Catholic. I didn't know I was supposed to be Catholic until I started going to mass and studying the Catechism 3 weeks ago. I'm 34.
Yeah, so other Christians, especially our Orthodox brothers have a good chance at being forgiven because they repent to God for their sins.
"Outside the Church there is no Salvation" is almost always misinterpteted. What it actually means is thay everyone who goes to Heaven was spiritually already part of the Church, even if they didn't realize it.
Not everyone who has a relationship with God fully converted to Catholicism, just like not everyone who goes to Church is a Catholic. God sees what's in peoples' hearts.
Thank you
You're welcome, I hope that helps you.
You can always pray for their souls; that they had (or have) a happy death in God’s grace.
Never despair of God’s mercy. There’s a story of a man who committed suicide by jumping off a bridge. As St. John Vianney explained to his wife (I believe?), God gave him what is called “Perfect Contrition” in the space between the bridge and the water, and he was saved.
As for people in general, we don’t really know for certain how many people or what portion are saved. Some saints have theorized that few are saved, others have even argued that the majority of people would be saved. It doesn’t help much to be wrapped up in such anxiety. What does constant worrying do about it? Pray for them, and trust in God’s boundless mercy.
What is God's mercy? What do you mean by that?
Please look into St. Faustina and the Divine Mercy story. God’s mercy is infinite and I believe that there is every chance that your loved ones made it to Purgatory/Heaven. Pray for them. God is outside of time and so there is every reason to believe prayers said now can still help your loved ones. If you feel this compassion about your loved ones, how much more does God who is their creator feel the same? Don’t despair. I firmly believe in a merciful, loving, and just God. That’s why purgatory is so beautiful.
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Then they have chosen their destination. God invites us to Him, He does not force.
So my non-Catholic deceased friends and family are all in hell?
Just to be clear.
It is not for us to say, the condition of their soul and their unique circumstances are unknown to us. God will judge in His mercy but also in His justice. He has offered us the way to salvation and eternal life. It is up to us whether or not we accept this gift and embrace Christ.
With every religion claiming to be the correct one, and with a seemingly infinite amount of misinformation in existence, how do we know to pick Roman Catholicism? How can we be expected to pick the right faith?
I stumbled into this faith. I got lucky.
Test it, measure it, see if what it promises is true.
Catholicism is the one true faith, it holds the way to eternal life.
There is no way someone on the outside could know whether that is true. Being expected to be any one religion exclusively for salvation is an unrealistic expectation. The regular, everyday person does not know Catholicism is true any more than mormanism or Hinduism. The everyday person is pelted with information and is pulled in every which direction.
I have to believe that even if God doesn’t bring people into the fullness of the faith, he doesn’t abandon them. Why would he create us for love and then allow some to be abused and hurt to just abandon them? He doesn’t.
Yes, you got lucky. Or, more accurately, you were blessed.
I had to spend years studying after being raised without religion, to find the Church.
There’s a reason why the Catholic Church is the biggest, oldest organization on the planet. It’s not chance.
The eternal fate of people after death is a reality we all have to contend with, without regard to any particular teaching. Every human being since we’ve been human beings has had to deal with this.
The Bible gives us the story of how we got here, and Christ gives us the path to heaven. Catholicism is not to blame for your anxieties. Reality is.
God is perfectly merciful and also perfectly just. He can see our hearts in a way no one else can. This means that everyone will go to the afterlife that they deserve. Nobody goes to Hell on accident; God knows how much knowledge we have on what is right and judges accordingly. That isn’t to say that it’s a free for all and that you can do whatever you want, but it does mean that we can hope in God’s mercy as long as we’re doing our best.
It’s understandable to worry about your relatives and your friends, and you should pray for them and their souls, even if they’ve been dead a long time. But you should also try to remember that God’s mercy is His biggest characteristic. He will take care of everyone’s souls perfectly, and we have to trust in that.
I get what you're saying and I appreciate it, but allowing a place like hell to exist means God lacks mercy entirely. I wouldn't damn someone forever. No one. Not even Hitler. I'm more merciful than God.
Think of it like this. God loves us so much that He gives us the choice to love Him back or not. If we show through our choices that we love Him, even imperfectly, He lets us into His presence when we die. If we show Him through our actions that we don’t love Him and don’t want to be with Him, God will respect that decision and allow us to go somewhere He isn’t, which is Hell. Hell is a miserable place, and that’s not by design; it’s just that all good things have God as their source, so anywhere that’s absent of Him will be devoid of all goodness or joy as well. We say that people are “sent” there, and in a way that’s true because God does believe in justice, but people who go to Hell ultimately choose it themselves through their actions. Who’d want to spend eternity with someone they don’t like?
The bottom line is that God will never turn away a repentant soul; we know this from Scripture. If someone is genuinely sorry for their sins and doing their best, they can have hope of salvation, but that’s a choice they have to make in how they live. At death our souls are either oriented towards God or they aren’t, and we’ll go to the place we deserve. The fact that some go to Hell isn’t a lack of mercy; it’s simply God allowing us our choices.
That makes sense. Thank you.
In the case of my sister, she died in her addiction and was not Christian (she identified as Jewish; we have Jewish grandparents). She was not religiously pious but was a good person who tried to do good but was crushed under the weight of her own demons.
Then, one of my friends, a protestant and a meth/heroin addict, died in a restaurant bathroom shooting dope.
Then my uncle; agnostic. Rejected Christian doctrine. But highly charitable. Strived to do good in everything he did. Did immense good works for developing countries. Lived morally righteous.
Then my grandparents; converted from Catholicism to Orthodox Judaism. Also righteous.
Pray for them! Do not despair! ♥️
I believe God leaves the choice to us- my Mom read one of the mystics and they said it was revealed to them that at our judgment Jesus asks us if we love him. And sadly, I do believe there are people who do not choose God. Satan didn’t choose God and Hell was his natural consequence.
Here is an excerpt from the Divine Mercy Website https://www.thedivinemercy.org/articles/death-judgment-heaven-and-hell:
“In her Diary, St. Faustina gives us a mystical insight into what our judgment may be like. She writes of Jesus calling to the soul not once, but three times. If the soul remains unresponsive, whether hardened or despairing, here's what happens:
Then the mercy of God begins to exert itself, and, without any co-operation from the soul, God grants it final grace. If this too is spurned, God will leave the soul in this self-chosen disposition for eternity. This grace emerges from the merciful Heart of Jesus and gives the soul a special light by means of which the soul begins to understand God's effort; but conversion depends on its own will. The soul knows that this, for her, is final grace and, should it show even a flicker of good will, the mercy of God will accomplish the rest .”
Edited to say: I believe my Mom was talking about St. Faustina but I can’t remember.
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That’s not a Catholic problem. That’s an anxiety issue. If learning of the mercy of God doesn’t help, seek therapy.