I stood up to medical staff about my boundaries.

1.7y

They are only human.

1.7y

What? If only it were that simple.

You’re exceptionally lucky if your life experience has shown you that doctors are trustworthy as a rule. The reality is that a great many are not at all worthy of trust, and often you don’t learn this until you’re already in an unpleasant or damaging dynamic.

Plus, many really don’t have the option to just “get a new doctor”. Often an insurance plan requires a person to see the doctor they’re assigned to, switching can take forever or is needlessly complicated, or patients cannot self-refer. Many cannot afford out-of-pocket medical care and the specialists in their area are not accepting new patients. Or perhaps their diagnosis dictates which medical practitioner they must see in their area, and transportation/time/funds to see a different doctor are not variables they can change. Or a zillion other reasons, really.

More to it, it can be a traumatizing experience to even learn that you don’t trust your doctor in the first place. And even if you are a person who has no trouble standing up for yourself normally, the doctor-patient relationship is not at all an equal power dynamic. I don’t know in what world doctors are all respectful helpmates only providing sensitive and warranted medical care in a collaborative relationship with their patients, but …it’s def not this world.

Also, there is always a need to stand up for ourselves with doctors — they’re just educated humans complete with human foibles. This is one of the reasons why patient advocates exist and one of the reasons why ombudspeople are staffed at hospitals.

All that is to say, yeah it’s a big deal when you’ve successfully stood up to a doctor who’s forgotten their vow to “do no harm”.

Edited to add tl;dr:

It’s invalidating to the commenter above and to the OP to suggest there’s no need to stand up to a doctor when these posts are about finding the necessary courage to do exactly that.

1.7y

Yeap. I was medically abused by my "mother" my whole childhood, there seems to be absolutely zero help or resources for adult survivors of medical child abuse/Munchausen by Proxy in my country (recently paid $10,000 US out of my own pocket to one of the only specialists in this kind of abuse, who is based in the US, but constantly afraid and depressed worrying that even that won't lead to any meaningful change in my quality of life), and at this point I've more or less accepted that I'm probably going to die at a young age of an otherwise treatable illness eating me alive because I've given up all hope of ever being treated with humanity and dignity by medical professionals, and my consent and preferences as a survivor ever being respected. And, to make things more fun, most people don't even believe that non-consensual medical invasion of your body is "real" abuse/assault, and your meaningful chances of receiving any accountability when you've been harmed by a medical professional are basically zero. I feel so fucking done

1.7y

Your strength in having dealt with such a difficult upbringing and the lack of medical support shown to you is something to be proud of. I hope you will get the support you need soon and have the medical fallout addressed by a doctor who is concerned with helping you to get better right away.

Since it’s a mental disorder your mother was/is exhibiting, NAMI.org may have some good resources you can make use of, even if you’re not in the USA; they’re easy to contact. That might be an easier avenue at the start than looking for a medical doctor who will assist as they ought to do. If you build rapport over time with a psychologist or other mental health practitioner who understands what transpired in your household, often it will mean more to a physician to have their referral with your case notes than if you self-refer. It’s not fair, it’s not right, but it seems to be the way it works nonetheless.

And obviously the usual advice of getting out of there as soon as you possibly can, even if you feel unprepared, is worth taking to heart. Even a young person can come out the other side of that scenario despite the personal risk, but what you’re describing is something you said will very likely end your life and causes unnecessary suffering every day. Homelessness is better than that because your life is your own. A therapist in your corner to help with a soft landing would be ideal in this way too.

Wishing you the best of luck.

1.7y

I appreciate your concern, I want to reassure you that I'm no longer in any contact with my "mom" (or most of my biological family) and no longer live with her. There is nothing alarmingly wrong with me at the moment (at least as far as I can personally tell on a superficial level), but due to my previous experiences I've avoided doctors as much as possible all my adult life, and, if nothing changes, and I don't expect things to change really at this point, I'm probably going to end up being the kind of person who dies miserably from metastatic cancer in their 40s or 50s because they never got it looked at when it was still possible to do anything. I'm the kind of person who literally lies in bed wondering if I'd just die if my appendix burst because I'd be too terrified to go through with surgery. (And, no, please don't recommend exposure therapy, because being made to undergo procedures that I absolutely never will consent to in the name of "therapy" will just make me want to make an attempt.) And at this point in my life I have no trust in psychiatrists because of how badly I've been brutalized and gaslit in that system previously, and in my experience therapists are clueless about how to help me with the medical/legal side of it (the most pressing thing at the moment being finding a doctor who won't give me more PTSD and will actually respect my boundaries and consent, which I've lost hope of ever happening). I paid the aforementioned woman $10,000 because she seemed qualified to help, but now I'm fearing that was probably a crapshoot too.

1.7y

Oh, I’m really glad you’re not still under her roof! I’m sorry if I misread or misunderstood your post above.

I can relate to having had outstandingly horrible experiences with psychiatrists and psychologists, but I also have found great ones as well — it’s not an easy undertaking (it’s the “finding a needle in a haystack” scenario), but it can be very worthwhile when you find the right fit. And it can open up so many doors.

Unfortunately, I also have direct experience with having serious medical problems not be seen for what they are… and my symptom complex not be taken seriously at all, including objectively observable signs and symptoms. In addition to being basically ignored by a whole slew of doctors, I was also laughed at, at a famous teaching hospital in front of several preeminent doctors in their fields and their residents in training, ugh. They thought my symptoms were not related though I knew they were. Their disdain wrecked me. But I couldn’t stop trying to sort out my symptoms just because they were rude and ignorant. A doctor friend suggested the approach I described to you, and it made all the difference for me.

Because they believed aspects of my presenting symptoms were “all in [my] head,” I set about to build up a psych history with regular treatment notes to show that their assumptions about me being paranoid was not part of my own psychological state, as those doctors had implied. By doing this, I was able to show I was not “crazy,” and when I returned to them (very not fun), they took me seriously based on my psych’s notes that addressed their concerns. Then, finally finally I was referred to a tropical medicine specialist who at my first visit recognized my symptom picture instantly for what it was, diagnosed me on the spot, ran tests to confirm, and I got the treatment and medication I needed. But that was sooooo much more arduous and psychologically taxing than it should have been, of course, because I was not believed or taken at my word for a long time.

Anyway, long story longer, I get you not wanting to deal with the whole medical establishment. Honestly, my own best healings have come from TCM and acupuncture. Doing what you can do on your own terms is better than doing nothing at all. I know health anxiety is real. Consider seeing alternative health practitioners if you can’t get preventive screening from medical doctors.

Furthermore, I don’t believe exposure therapy is the best way to go about anything when anxiety is a component. I can recommend Internal Family Systems methods though, which you can learn about on your own and work on remotely with trained practitioners. And I’ve heard the book, Becoming Safely Embodied, is a great resource. So there are things you can do to lower anxiety levels in general and address the anxious beliefs that you might die of XYZ without getting test ABC, etc. You don’t have to feel so alone with this is what I’m saying, even though the medical community isn’t there for us in the ways we wish it was.

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1.7y

Vivi36000

1.7y

Right, but that's not an option in some areas. Like where I live we simply do not have enough doctors. We just don't. It takes 6+ months to get an appointment at the major medical provider company/doctors offices. Most private practices aren't taking new patients, and unfortunately they're the only ones that are worth going to, unless you're dying or just need a routine yearly exam. The two doctors that people have personally recommended to me are fully booked and can't take anymore people for the foreseeable future.

colieolieravioli

1.7y

Okay so like I see what you're saying but

How is what you're saying relevant? First you say all Dr's are trustworthy (not true) and then you say "well you have to do your hw to find a trustworthy dr"

But that's irrelevant??? OP is talking about a situation where a Dr WASNT trustworthy. How does anything you said even adhere to the topic? How is saying "all Dr's are trustworthy" help in a situation in which a Dr is NOT being trustworthy by trampling OPs boundaries?

1.7y

Ridiculous assumption that people who are unsatisfied with their doctors just haven’t done enough homework or otherwise tried hard enough to find a good one by tapping people they know for referral leads. Do you really think everyone’s friends are in their network? Are you a doctor?

And do you not know that negative reviews are frequently suppressed? Pay-for-removal companies and pay-for-positive-reviews are a huge, and growing, money-making industry for a reason. Positive reviews are often faked, too. Fakespot used to analyze data and show the stats for Yelp listings, but they can’t anymore. Why? Because there was so much deviousness going on with online reviews that Yelp changed their code to keep watchdog companies from exposing the crookedness. So the public are kept in the dark. Who keeps review sites like Yelp afloat? The companies paying for sterling public-facing profiles.

Why the need to invalidate others’ successes in advocating for themselves?

Your thinking is very flawed on this subject.

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1.7y

wildgaytrans

1.7y

Semantics! See I can do it too

asifshewouldcare

Text

1.7y

It was a stranger putting their hands on someone with trauma. If you don't get it maybe you should leave this subreddit because most of us can relate to that and we really don't need invalidation around here

User deleted comment

1.7y

asifshewouldcare

Text

1.7y

When someone said that it's a big deal, you responded by saying "It's a nurse." As if you're saying it's just a nurse what's the big deal. Is that not what you meant?

wait_for_godot

-2

1.7y

No it was just bc OP was referring to a nurse..

asifshewouldcare

Text

1.7y

Well we all knew that because she said that. I think you're trying to backpedal.

wait_for_godot

1.7y

It’s ok if you think that. I wasn’t intentionally trying to invalidate the commenter tho.

xthexdeadxonex

1.7y

That's awesome! I'm proud of you.

I have a gyno appointment next week. It's both a yearly and for an issue. I wasn't able to get an appointment with the same doctor as last time, unfortunately. It's someone I haven't seen before, so I'm nervous. I hope, if needed, I can find my courage to stand up for myself, like you did.

Undrende_fremdeles

1.7y

In case you haven't heard of this tip before:

Wear a dress, a skirt or something like that, that will cover you still. That way you won't feel as exposed without your underwear, and you will be immediately covered as soon as you get back up.

xthexdeadxonex

1.7y

Any time I've ever gone for any sort of exam like that, though, they've always told me to take all my bottom stuff off. I wouldn't mind doing your suggestion. I guess I'm just worried about getting a hard time for doing that? I'm already worried about possible conflict. Oh I worry too much lol

Undrende_fremdeles

1.7y

Standard phrasing does not prevent you from wearing a skirt or a dress. They can access everything just fine.

If they try making it uncomfortable for you, first reply is that they can do their job just as well like this, and second reply is to place the discomfort right back on their doorstep if they try pushing it.

"is there any particular reason you need me fully naked when you have all the access needed as a t is? In which case I would like that in writing with an explanation as to why that is the case."

You are allowed to walk out.

1.7y

My obgyns have always done manual breast exams on me during my wellness checkups, wearing a dress or a skirt won’t work.

This is why you have to take off your street clothes and put the patient gown on (same type of gown that patients wear in a hospital setting. I’m actually grateful for the breast exams, because I’m too anxious to do them myself and I know they’re important. They cover you up in paper sheets on top of the hospital gown and only expose one body part at a time. Of course if the medical professional is being insensitive or abusive of their position you have to speak up.

1.7y

I’m so glad for this. It reminds me that when I have my physical next week I will likely tell the nurse practitioner that I have an anxiety disorder and might start crying, and that’s ok.

gigglebox1981

1.7y

This is awesome 👏🏻 The medical field needs to catch up with norms of consent.

kat-official

1.7y

“I don’t like how you are interacting with me, can someone else take your place?”

i never even thought to put it that way before but as someone who is almost always treated poorly by my medical team i love it! idk if this changes your perception of the experience, but if i had to guess i would say that you aren’t the first and won’t be the last patient to request a switch in that clinic, or even of that doctor. that’s such a strong moment & makes me happy for you! 💗

Vivi36000

1.7y

That's awesome!! You're so bold and brave. Standing up to nurses especially can be really difficult, I feel like they're more stern sometimes.

xojackiex

1.7y

Great job!! Proud of you for being your own advocate :)

Mimsy_Borogrove

1.7y

That is awesome! I love that you were able to unfreeze in the moment- that is huge recovery. Especially in a medical situation as being a patient undergoing procedure is a vulnerable position. And you had the experience of being able to change the situation to increase your feeling of safety. I’m so happy you shared this with us.

Equivalent_Section13

1.8y

Great job .

foxlab

1.7y

Yay!!!! Well done! I did this once before too - self advocated and got an immediate nurse swap. 👏

Aralera_Kodama

1.7y

Good for you for standing your ground! I've had a few procedures and make sure to tell everyone my son died from the anesthesia they gave him. He did have progeria so his health was already bad and I'm sure that is the main reason but it doesn't make it any better. But still when my daughter had some procedures done I made sure to inform them and the wonderful anesthesiologist walked me thru everything very nicely. I was having panic attacks and he helped me calm down. I'm glad you set boundaries and they listened with no problems!

c_queerly

1.8y

That’s awesome, you definitely should be proud of yourself

quickshesasleep

1.7y

This is sooo huge!! I'm so proud of you for standing up for yourself. It's also a big deal because it may have alerted that nurse that her behavior is unacceptable and working in the medical field she needs to be more aware of things like that. Maybe you helped the next person!!

raclnp

1.7y

Yeah healthcare feels often very triggering. Little time to get your questions answered properly, impatience if you dont "get it" (but you need to be precise to make progress or they'll just wing it, otherwise they just use the standard approach, even if it doesn't match enough, you need to understand it well and detailed lol), and they like to convince you of things instead of answering neutrally, or sometimes giving it more value judgements than necessary.

Rainbow_Dark_22

1.8y

wow! it’s inspiring to hear you did that! and it worked!!!

1.7y

👌 this is actually inspiring, thank you for sharing.

Undrende_fremdeles

1.7y

Wow! That is absolutely amazing. Being able to find thoae words like that...

1.7y

I write lines for how to maintain boundaries. Like a bunch of different phrases to express that I don't feel comfortable. My therapist recommended it. It's scripting to prepare for events when I know I'm more likely to be uncomfortable.

vabirder

1.7y

If and when you feel ok sharing some of your scripts, I think a lot of us would find them helpful. You express yourself well.

OldPlantain7807

1.7y

Yo that's really cool. I might need to do that with other emotions too

1.7y

Practicing saying them helps too. That way they roll off the tongue when you need them.

I used to shut down when i got hurt and wouldn't be able to explain i needed help. Now if i fall and get hurt, i go into a broken record of "Help help i am hurt. Help help i am hurt."

Infamous_Ad_2979

1.7y

I recently blocked a specific nurse from being assigned to me at my midwifery appointments because she has repeatedly used dismissive language towards the struggles I was having. I'm so proud of you ❤️

noirefox1224

1.7y

SO FUCKING PROUD OF YOU

firecat07

1.7y

Amazing! Great job!

SamathaYoga

1.7y

Hurrah for you, that’s amazing! You did such a hard, tender thing, I’m so proud of you!

pluto-bug

1.7y

I don’t think people talk about this enough!

I had to see a dermatologist due to a melanoma scare, and she had to check my entire body for potential melanoma. Without warning, she started touching me everywhere. Resulted in a trigger that took me a month to recover from.

Jeru215

1.7y

I had a problem with a woman who was supposedly some kind of a nerve pain specialist. I had an inguinal hernia surgery that ended up going horribly wrong. Nothing but fire in my groin, left testicle and thigh. My original surgeon had me wait a year to see this lady because she was moving to my state. Anyway, at this point I'd been in agony for 2 years, I go in for the initial visit and talk to her about what was going on.. she gets up after a few questions and snaps her finger saying "I know exactly what the problem is" but wouldn't tell me what it was she was thinking.. even after asking her multiple times. I was dying to know but I couldn't get hopes up with her being so unwilling to share her thoughts. So I come back a couple weeks later and she says she's going to do nerve block injections.. right into my groin. I was very nervous and even sweating on my forehead in the cold office. I asked her very clearly to let me know before she stuck this long ass needle right into my groin. She agreed.. 5 minutes later she told me lay back in the chair, covered my eyes, asked if I had any kids, and before I could answer BOOM she stuck me with that fucking spike. It hurt like nothing I've ever experienced before. I popped up like a jack in the box yelling at her.. I almost knocked her across the room. When I started to calm down I said didn't I ask you to let me know when you were going to stick me? She said yes.. but that she's just a girl.. a small girl can't hurt anybody. I was baffled. Genuinely left confused and offended by that response. Then we went back and forth with her telling me she was a doctor for however many years and she made a judgment call to disregard my request to be notified prior to the injection. I was irate at this point, my groin was in more pain than usual and I told her that it was my body and she needed to respect my wishes. She doesn't get to make judgment calls on my behalf whether she's the doctor or not. Especially after telling me she would let me know just a few minutes prior. Don't tell me you'll let me know and then decide not to. That's bullshit. I had no idea what medical gaslighting was prior to this incident. But when she started saying it was all in my head and I was just in fear i knew something wasn't right. Afterwards she said we'll try something else next time and they would call me to set an appointment because she had to go out of town or something. I never saw her again. She told my surgeon I was too difficult and wouldn't let her do her job. This changed my perspective of doctors forever. Don't allow anybody in the medical field to cross your boundaries or treat you like you're crazy. We're all raised to trust doctors and nurses and we trust them too easily. Sometimes they overstep their bounds and their egos get the best of them. If you're not comfortable SAY SOMETHING. That was the first time I ever felt violated in my life. I almost wish I did toss her across the room when I popped out of the chair. Fuck that lady.

1.7y

Wow, that is horrible. If you’re in the USA, filing a report with your state medical board is an option. It doesn’t resolve things fairly for you, obviously, but you can see the complaints filed against doctors on your state licensing site, and ultimately it will have repercussions for her.

wheeldog

MIDDLE AGED COWPUNK

1.7y

GOOD. I actually REPORTED a doctor at OHSU in Oregon. MOFO was really horrible to me. It felt good to let OHSU know that one of their docs was a bigot

Minnesota_icicle

1.7y

I reported an imaging tech for an MRI. I’m 50 years old and honestly I’ve had so many mris I’ve lost count. I explained that I have anxiety with mris and I was taking atavan, so they would act accordingly. Right? I’m up on the scan bed about to lay down and this fucking misogynist says to me, it’s ok we’ll get through this just be a good girl. I actually went black for a second with rage. I had a split second to decide my next move. There were only two options in my state, flip the fuck out or shut up and do the mri. I opted to do the mri. I refused to respond to him the entire time. I made it to my truck and broke down from rage. I finally calmed down later on and made the call and reported him. I’ve never been so inclined to assault a medical professional as much as him. The next time anything remotely close to this will be dealt with differently. I’ll never allow anyone to patronize me again regardless of the situation.

Stringofhearts1969

1.7y

So proud of you!! That is such a scary feeling, so sorry you have to feel that! I hope you got to treat yourself after💖

tiredgirl6

1.7y

This is so huge, well done! Whenever I go to the dentist, I always ask them to please explain to me what they’re doing while they’re doing it, it’s always made me panic (could never understand why, until now I know it’s all stemmed from C-PTSD related stuff) when they just poke and prod away inside your mouth reciting weird jargon you have no clue the meaning of, it feels like I’m not a person and they can just do whatever they want to me and I have to just sit there and keep calm, when all I want to do is scream so hard my heart can thump out of my chest and my lungs can breathe the air in. This is the only physical boundary I’ve ever been able to set, I think because we get taught that fear of the dentists/medical stuff is normal, so it made me fee like I could ‘get away’ with being ‘difficult’ or ‘demanding’, maybe even a bit ‘weird’ compared to other patients who don’t have the same ‘fear’. Setting boundaries is so hard, but your post reminded me of the dentist thing I’ve always done, and it gives me hope that both you and I can learn to apply that in other areas. Sending you support and love, well done ❤️

metaphoricallykms

1.7y

THIS IS AMAZING!!!!! This is so fucking hard to do and I am SO proud of you!!!!

That’s exactly what you deserve! Amazing job. 👏👏👏

Mereotopology

1.7y

> Much to my surprise , they just swapped out. I am very grateful to the staff and happy with myself.

Everyone unharmed, all at ease, beautiful! Very well done, and thanks for posting, you have given me hope!

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1.7y

Minnesota_icicle

1.7y

I’m so sorry 😞

CrystalMethAddict84

1.7y

All nurses/doctors/caregivers/etc. are supposed to be trained to do that (talk the patient/client through what’s happening to make them more comfortable). If she did not do that, she was not doing her job and it is a great thing that you spoke up. Good on you.

twenteetoo

1.7y

I shut down with the suddenness of medical practitioners too, I'm so proud of you for speaking up even as the shut down had started commencing. Go you <3

1.7y

Fucking fantastic! It’s in their best interest to comply with your requests anyway, an aggrieved patient is a litigious patient. Anything other than the offending staff member getting replaced is a bad move on their part. Not that that goes very far toward helping the issue of the too handsy nurse, however.

Odd-Medium-9693

1.7y

As a nurse, you did the right thing. Not just for yourself, but also for the staff/mgmt too. They need to think about patterns in cringy/dominating team members and address it. It's unethical to touch patients when they say not to, and it's gross and abusive to then go on to defend in and further make you feel helpless. I would go a step further if I were you. Write a letter to management explaining what happened, why it is important to you and many others for various reasons, and your perceptions of the experience. And what you hope/expect for them to do about it. ie, talk to that nurse in detail about it, and how if it affected you, it affects a handful of others who feel too scared to speak out about it. That nurse was fulfilling some selfish need by being touchy and patronizing to you. These kinds of 'professionals' need to face reality and learn to be more selfless in their profession- put the patient first. Common sense! The patient's comfort is a critical element, and plenty of research shows that feelings of comfort and safety contribute to postop healing and minimize complications/infections. I'm mad that happened to you. I wish those people would choose a different field. Periop roles should have an emphasis on reducing stress in the patient's environment, even more so when the patient has gone out of their way to include psych diagnoses on their medical history. I added CPTSD to my medical history recently. I don't need insensitivity or abrasiveness from medical staff. Nobody does. Always admired the patients who said 'I want a different nurse'. It's almost always the same cringy nurses. Good job. Always be your best advocate!

1.7y

You can do that?

Right_Meet_5985

-2

1.7y

I'm glad it went well for you. In 2014 I asked to not receive certain drugs through iv rather take orally and I was told no. They even called security an off duty cop and I told him please not to strap me down as it is a trigger from when u was held against my will. He immediately strapped me down. I did not even hit or touch anyone I was simply asking for a different way to take meds for the PAnic attack I had gone in for. Then I ended up being charged with felony assault on a police officer. He claimed I spit at him because I had to spit up onto the floor as i was struggling to breathe!! Another trauma added to the list now. I woke up 2 days later in psych ward. Now I have trouble renting anywhere because of the charge. It was his word and 1 nurse against mine. No cameras back then. I pleaded to a misdemeanor. Now I just do whatever they say and won't stand up for myself ever again.

Mother-Special-8071

1.7y

what the fuck, thats horrid

remylp2021

1.7y

I’m so sorry you went through all of this

1.7y

I believe you. And I also know of similar events, unfortunately. It’s terrifying being in a situation where your rights aren’t respected. Very sorry this happened to you and has had such far reaching effects in your life.

1.7y

How do you manage to go to the dentist or get anything health related done if you can't stand being touched...they literally have to touch you?