Accidental revelation from getting a new dog about my anger and inability to establish boundaries.

Holy fuck i related to this so hard. Its so much easier for me to move on from relationships after a huge blow out and so I actively force one to happen when I start to become unhappt with people in my life.

Punishing out the warnings is very very common in small dogs and children, leading to biting and tantrums.

Same here. I'm as patient as they come, until I'm not. Then I destroy psyches and that's not okay. Venting as I go is a lot healthier, but I feel like I'm trapped until I can't take it anymore. I'm going to spend my day thinking on this and how to express things differently. Thank you!!!

OH DONT GET ME STARTED!!!!!!!!!!

my dog changed my life. For me especially it was my difficulty with controlling my own anger. For a moment I would see in him what my mom saw in me "I feed you, I love you, and yet you're not perfect. See the way I was raised, we punish those who disrespect us in such a way".... And I felt myself using actual energy to try and not kick my dog. I felt so horrible and ugly. But instead of doing what had been done to me, I worked on myself and learned all the ways my dog had been trying to talk to me.

That being said I'm now a dog trainer!

Also I was worried you were going through with stopping the growling! Idk what the vet told you, but toss treats at pup while she has that toy, just trying to let.her know "hey, no one's taking, we're still just giving. work on "leave it" in case you need to grab the toy. You don't want to just grab it out of her mouth and reinforce that possessive feeling.

My partner and I took in an abused dog who had bitten his abuser multiple times (and was otherwise going to be shot). We bonded immediately and I understood his trauma behaviours instinctively.

My partner wantes to discipline our dog for his occasional growls but I realised he needed to be able to safely communicate when he was distressed otherwise he would be forced straight to biting - or as i understood a defensive "fight" response. Thankfully my partner listened to me.

Two years later our dog never feels the need to growl and has never gotten close to biting.

He's a beautiful creature and soothes me when I'm having a flashback and no one else even realises.

I love this sub! For many reasons! But, your post illustrates a BIG one: Great depth of thought in usual daily occurrences. Maybe a person who is lucky enough to have avoided cPTSD would have never taken the information that you had to the perfectly logical and wonderful conclusion that you did! I wouldn’t wish our affliction on anyone, but those of us who do...we just have such - ah! what’s the word? The opposite of vapid is what we are. And, sometimes, it’s almost worth it.

This is exactly what I'm working on in relationship counseling currently with my partner; just in reverse. You ignored me when I gently said the thing. Then when I firmly said the thing. Then when I made it clear the thing was not OK. Then when I bit, you listened. What do you think this is leading to?

That probably sounds worse than it is. We're talking squabbles here not bad fights, but working out communication.

I do this! I need to learn to advocate for my feelings without jumping down people's throats.

This is a great analogy!

I've had a very similar experience with my pup. He's completely changed my life and my relationship with myself. The fact that he isn't a rescue (had him since he was 8 weeks old) has made me so much more compassionate towards myself, too. Sometimes our behavioral issues are hard-wired, but we can still learn to overcome reactivity and be more insightful, calm, and approachable.

Before Bubba, I really didn't have a scope on how much my anxiety and resulting anger was impacting my life (or was at least in denial). As a pup, he had a lot of aggression issues: reactivity towards dogs and new people, being touched in certain ways, and resource guarding literally anything, including the space around him, me, his toys, etc. He bit me twice. He was insecure and constantly felt threatened by life. It was a huge wake up call, feeling like his developing personality was a reflection of my own reactive tendencies- seeing the way that I can become aggressive and back people into corners, biting and lunging to protect my own insecurities, so to speak.

I hired a private trainer who inadvertently helped me more than any therapist has. She taught me how to be calm and confident and that I do actually have the strength to stay present for him instead of tapping out and allowing situations to escalate. I have to show up for myself so I can show up for Bubba. My relationship with my dog has trickled into all the other relationships in my life in the best possible way... he still has issues but we manage them by staying present and taking action. Over a year since the last bite!

I still have a lot of work to do and I'm not always consistent, but I communicate better, establish and enforce boundaries more often, and am overall more approachable and self-aware now. I'm a nicer person. I made a commitment to this sweet boy. I back-slide with his training and my personal development all the time, but we never give up on each other!

I've since ended the toxic relationship I was in (didn't like the way he treated Bubba), moved out of my moms house where I was constantly triggered and had my boundaries ignored, and moved across the country (something I always wanted but was afraid to do). The only way out is through. There is light on the other side.

tl;dr: magical healing powers of raising a pup of you're willing to put in the work :)

I came to realize the truth about my emotions after becoming a force free dog trainer. I’ve had to leave the industry because I can’t see people who literally take money from people to abuse the warning signs out of a dog.. but you nailed this and I’m so grateful for vets like yours! What an amazing revelation.

My favourite line to tell people from back when I was training... “if ever a dog growls at me, I THANK THEM for telling me.” How unfair to not listen to them...

So, boundaries are resources for me, because they protect inner resources, mainly, bandwidth. And I was conditioned to never protect resource - that I had no inherent right to protect my own resources, because they did not belong to me - they belonged to whoever wanted them. Especially bandwidth.

The first boundary that was soooo heard to get up the courage to enforce was saying "No." I was conditioned (I won't say reared because I wasn't - all of it was conditioning) to never say "No" - to always people please.

When I finally got up the courage to be able to say "NO, I won't do that," it was liberating and I found I stopped going all falmethrowery so often.

The key was saying "No I *won't* do that." Not "I don't want to" - because that invites the question of "Well, why not? " and then they try to make you defend it.

Just "NO - I won't do that." and let it fall like the Ring of Sauron right in the middle of the floor. And then - say nothing else.

OMG my best friend has told me I do this as well. I hate it when I do this but don't seem to be able to stop myself. This just really hit home for me thanks for sharing. I'm learning so much from this group.

Cn animal abuse

Yes. Same thing with dogs who bark or growl at people or other dogs on the street and have their humans use abusive implements like shock collars to discourage that. The dog is growing out of fear and to establish a boundary. When you teach them boundaries aren't safe, they look fine till they snap

Our dog, on the other hand, is great with most dogs unless they get in her face. In which case she does a grouchy old lady moment (snarls at them for a few seconds) until they back off. Then generally the other dog gets the message to back off and respect her personal space, and both dogs go back to being pretty calm and peaceful

And same applies to humans for sure. The situations i feel the most prone to snap, be overwhelmed by fear, etc are those where i feel like i can't have safe boundaries. Actually just had a situation kind of like that recently and i think this sheds some new light on it

One of my big revelations from helping out with my friend's training classes are get repeatedly saying "never drag your dog towards something they're afraid of." In other words, forcing a dog (or human) to do something scary against their will a) breaks their trust in the person doing that to them, b) makes them feel more powerless and afraid cause they feel out of control and overwhelmed. That's why that doesn't teach them they can do the thing and be ok, it teaches them the thing is horrible and too much

What you should do with dogs to get them to overcome fear is let them approach the thing (assuming it's safe to) and investigate and back away whenever they want. And praise and treat for exploring. And make sure your demeanor looks as relaxed and fun as possible, to reassure them you think it's fine. Eg "was that a silly noise? What was that?" sort of up beat talk

I relate 100%

I was told I did this but the thing is, I growled. I told him what bothered me and he did it, seemingly, deliberately. Did he want me to blow up?

I've always been extremely communicative. I said what I felt, when I felt it. I didn't beat around the bush or make people guess. Good or bad, I was straightforward....

I'm wondering how much warning/growling I gave towards the end though. Exhausted and holding my emotions back (at his request) did I just explode? I saw it coming but I wonder, now, if he did. He should have but...

My mind just went from your discovery to every consequence in my life for how my warnings were suppressed. The ultimate result in my case was a deep sense of helplessness because abuse happened, and if I reacted it would be far worse, effectively eroding my boundaries.

Thanks for sharing. I'll reflect a lot upon that because, well, my boundaries are all over the place. It's strange how something so simple can guide us to improve so much...

I had a foster dog who was taught not to show any warnings. I was the lucky person to find this out. No, I don't blame the dog at all, I blame the crappy previous owner and the rescue who sent her to me without doing a full assessment...

Having my previous dog, I learned a lot about myself and my reactions to things. She helped me chill out a lot. I remember yelling at her once because she broke something I cared about by accident. I know it was by accident because she left it on the floor near the table with one bite mark in it. I scared her, I felt so bad and sent her for a time out. I never yelled at her like that every again. It was always a firm bed, to make her go for a time out. I loved that dog and I learned to chill out a lot with her. She helped me become less anxious, she helped me socialise more because people always wanted to meet the beautiful husky. My friend who had known me since I was 18, said she changed me so much for the better. It wasn't too long after getting her that I made friends who I still have today, started being more social and just happier. I wish I still had her, but I lost her a few years ago now.

Oh this is so good! I've learned a lot from my dog too. She's a rescue and obviously had some... Not great experiences with people before I got her. She's an incredibly affectionate dog, but every once in a while she will meet someone that she just does not like. I've learned to respect that boundary (and honestly am usually grateful later because it turns out that the person she didn't like was not a good person to be around anyway). I'm working on getting better about listening to my own feelings about people who feel off to me. Intuition exists for a reason, and trauma doesn't make my intuition any less valid.

Over the past couple years, I've been finally rediscovering my own "growl." I'm in my first relationship where I'm able to vocalize my own needs without getting upset (mainly about my need for verbal affection. Not constantly, but regularly). Unfortunately my partner gets very defensive when I bring it up and makes me feel incredibly invalidated. I just now realized that's probably why I'm no longer "growling" but "barking" and actually getting upset about it.

Thank you for posting this. It really made some things click for me!

You seriosuly blew my mind. I also got a dog back in November and having him has made such a difference for me as well. I got frustrated with him once and was scolding him and I realized I sounded just like my mother.

It was a punch to the gut but one I needed to have.

I actually yelled “Look what you made me do!” at my first dog once, when she bumped me off balance, and I knocked over a full milkshake I’d just bought for someone else all over that someone else’s carpet.

Luckily my dog was too busy playing with my friend’s dog to really notice for more than a nanosecond...but it shocked me because I don’t even remember hearing that as a kid. It seemed like a cliché line that only people on TV used...but it came out of my mouth automatically.

Much appreciated this. Thank you!

That was insightful tanks for posting this. Something I need to work on.

Oprah voice.

BREAK THROOOUUUGH

Whoa. Same can be said of me. Thanks for posting this--what a useful insight!

This is still something I have trouble with. It takes ages for me to get to boiling point, but when I do I'm apparently disproportionate to the situation.

The only snag for me, is that I still don't know what that middle ground is. There are tiny things I perceive to be violations of my personal boundaries* and people have denied it. Some have also told me to "stand up for myself more". So I never know which is right and tend to just ignore everybody.
I've tried in the past just vocally establishing boundaries and in the situations I have it's like nothing works. People seems to be either rude and disrespectful (but don't seem to mind listening to others) or I get too stringent with rules and boundaries because I don't know any better.

*I should note, I was recently diagnosed with BPD in addition to CPTSD, so I dunno if my sense of boundaries come from one, the other, or whether they reinforce each other. But it's still the same behavioural issue.

You’re right, this is absolutely mind blowing. Damn, I think that your description of this helped me to get unstuck with a topic I was trying, but failing to accurately write for therapy. Thank you!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this feels like something that’s been fuzzily floating in the far recesses of my mind and you just perfectly articulated it. thank you.

I started dating someone new recently and I’ve been trying to clearly state minor irritations instead of trying to suppress them like I historically have. This is exactly why. I’m filing this post for future reference for sure.

I learned SO MUCH about myself and and people by learning dog training and dog psychology.

Check out the book "For the Love of a Dog".

Hey, this is awesome! I'm so glad for you! I got a puppy a couple months ago and he's taught me a lot about myself already. It's incredible how much we can learn from unexpected places.

This is so illuminating, and novel. It makes sense of so much of my life. 😱

Thank you for posting this.

Holy shit! This makes so much sense. I completely relate too!

Does the vet have anymore good advice? I may want a new therapist 😂

A veterinarian often functions as everything from surgeon to therapist, all while being unable to use words to communicate with their patients. I've always considered competent veterinarians to be a cut above anything I've ever personally experienced in the human medical industry.

Wow. Impactful analogy!! seriously ... I’m gonna keep this one in my head.

Holy shit yeah

Good post. Good points. Its okay to express when something upsets you.

Oh shit u cracked the code

oh wow i do this too. this is very helpful!! the sentence "you've taught them it's not safe or desirable to warn" is so powerful

Oh damn that was an actual eye opener. I've already been aware of that pattern you described in the last part but the metaphor with growling and biting makes it more understandable, even how the poor people I "bite" might perceive that behavior...

Also I just got to think that probably that was a pattern I grew up with. I learned that me growling wasn't well received...

Wow!! So well said and insightful. I've never thought of that before but I can relate so so much.

As someone who worked a lot with dogs and studied their behavior, I've never heard of it being compared in this way before. That makes a lot of sense and feels really applicable in a similar way. I really like that comparison and its super interesting you thought of things like that.

I can totally relate! However I'm not even sure if I know how to growl...

Holy fuck that's eye-opening

Thank you so much for sharing, really means something to me.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Damn this is so fucking useful to me! What an epiphany you had! 👏🏻

omfg... thank you for phrasing it like this wow!! my brain rn 🤯🥺👀🥲

Hey!! I have a super anxious dog and I am also very anxious and honestly, it’s been wild learning about myself through her, because I view her with more compassion than myself. I’m hypercritical of myself, but understanding of her issues, even when they’re the same, and it’s made me try to be more gracious with myself. Learning from your dog is so NEAT. Proud of your epiphanies, friend ♥️

breaking the ice: well, looks like u like to make surprises to ppl

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I kind of wonder if there's a way out of this without removing the toy. The creature obviously cares about it, it just needs some kind of way of caring but without giving strong threat to others - it itself probably has a boundary issue because it feels it needs to keep growling, rather than that others will respect that it's toy/stuff is its. And in a way, taking away the toy, yeah, shows its boundary being bypassed (it probably doesn't realise its been bypassed and is wondering where its toy is)

Just prefacing this with a I'm not disagreeing, and it's fantastic that your dog is helping you, I'm just asking because I've never heard that resource guarding is something to be allowed, or worked with, it's supposed to be stopped as soon as possible? Anyway on to my question! Hope there is no offence <3

This is interesting because I've always read that resource guarding was a "I'm the boss and this is mine!!" thing. And, in a brand new dog you are supposed to establish boundaries such as they aren't allowed to attack you because you are the new boss?

Thoughts? Someone in the comments said they were a dog trainer, I think.