Poor grasp of time that causes lateness, which causes anxiety, which causes further lateness! Anyone have any insight here?

I'm terrible at being on time. Always have been.

I get this anxiety and self-loathing feeling about my history of lateness every morning before I leave the house. (There may be a sprinkle of agoraphobia going on) I make myself anywhere from 5-30 minutes late every single goddamn day for a low-bar, late morning job. (Several years ago it was worse—like 45 minutes on average)

Sure enough, every time I clock in late I get this sinking, pit in my stomach, 'Really? You've done it again for the 10 millionth time!? internal eye-roll WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU!? STOP DOING THIS, UGH!!'. And then I start my day on edge from embarrassment because I can sense the mild disappointment in my behavior from my boss and co-workers.

I attempt to gloss over this moment with jokes and distracting conversation. Sometimes I embellish stories about my commute, passing off funny mishaps or anecdotes about strangers as excuses for my at least once a week lateness. Really trying to stop doing this because I know it's not acceptable or cute.

It's irritating because I know I am doing all of this to myself for absolutely no reason and I'm not fooling anyone. I've been stuck in this loop for what feels like an eternity—definitely since childhood.

My saving grace is that I am really, really good at what I do, I have an obsessive commitment to the work, and I compulsively stay late to complete tasks. I have achieved a high enough level of expertise and respect among my industry peers that I know I won't actually get fired, but I am constantly on edge because of my own non-sensical self-sabotage. It's honestly driving me absolutely bonkers.

I have always had trouble with grasping the concept of time. 10 minutes and 30 minutes feel exactly the same. An hour vs 3 hours makes little difference to me. I can easily work for 10 hours straight with no break and not even notice. Two weeks ago might as well have been two months ago. If it weren't for the changing of the seasons, I would have absolutely no sense of a year passing.

I know that this is rooted in trauma, but in this vague, impossible to place way. It is incredibly frustrating and I feel like I've already wasted a good chunk of my life worrying about this issue and scheming up ways to solve it with limited success. At this point, I'm starting to think this is some weird version of self-harm.

I'm currently living by a series of alarms that go off every 15 or 30 minutes with different chimes corresponding to different mundane tasks that keep me functioning at a level of semi-normalcy. This has helped marginally, but I find it cumbersome, annoying, and that the constant alarm sounds exacerbate my anxiety. It has not helped me grasp time better either, which I was really hoping for with this admittedly slightly eccentric idea I concocted for myself.

If anyone has any insight, experience, suggestions, even just commiseration, I would greatly appreciate it.

in CPTSDby la_lurkette

99%

4.8y

[deleted]

4.8y

I too have this "condition". I wasn't like that since childhood - chronic lateness started around high school, with the onset of other stuff like social phobia. I wonder if these are related. I was late to classes in college and then to all my jobs. Now I work remotely, which is a blessing. But I'm late to meetings with friends, sports classes etc.

I'm improving, though. I realised that what causes anxiety is the getting ready part. I just can't get myself to do my make-up, pack my bag etc., because it feels like torture. I procrastinate until it's too late.

What helps? Firstly, setting my clock fast by even 5-10 minutes. When I'm in a hurry, I don't really remember I did it, so it works. :D

Secondly, understanding and being mindful of my anxiety. I remind myself that it's just an automatic reaction that dates back to the times when I was afraid to go to school. Wherever I'm headed now is not as bad.

I know it's not groundbreaking advice, but in my case this allows me to "ignore" the anxiety and get ready anyway.

la_lurkette

4.8y

I've got my bathroom clock running 5 minutes fast, but I've also got a bad habit of bending the rules and thus ignoring the thing I did to help myself.

Now, the second part I have never tried, being mindful of my own anxiety. I beat myself up about it, which is definitely part of this loop thing. I'm not very compassionate with myself or good at self-soothing. I sort of give that out to other people and save none for myself.

StrangeAlienCreature

4.8y

I too struggle with time distortions and one of the things that really helped me is I started wearing a watch. It’s a smart watch, but a simple one that’s not too distracting but every time I turn my wrist over (think the motion someone would make to check a normal watch) it lights up with the time and my heart rate. You can also add alarms that vibrate quietly on your wrist (I have a recurring “bedtime reminder” that buzzes 8:30pm each night to remind me its about that time and I should probably start to wind down. The silent alarm feature would probably really help you.

I also have to plan ahead for everything, like down to the last minute detail of “I have to be here at XX:YY so I must wake up by XX:YY to be out the door by XX:YY” etc etc. I try to plan to leave for anywhere with enough time to get stuck in traffic for 15 minutes and still be on time. It’s better to be a little bit early than always feeling like you have to stay late every day to compensate for your lateness.

If you find yourself late to something. Don’t make excuses. No, “sorry there was a crash on the way” (unless that’s the truth of course). Instead, try this: “I sincerely apologize for my lateness, I am trying very hard to improve my time management skills and am trying very hard to improve my punctuality” If it comes down to having a chat with your supervisor to explain what’s going on, that might be necessary in order to protect your job.

If you still struggle with time distortions, try using your phone to time yourself doing the things you do every day. Use these figures to estimate how long you’ll need to prepare for a day, and to gain a better understanding of how long 60 seconds actually is.

Good luck and Godspeed my friend. May you forever and always be on time to your future appointments ♥️

la_lurkette

4.8y

Thanks for the thoughtful suggestions.

Time distortions—that is exactly what is happening! Thanks for this term.

I got into watches a couple years ago, not smart watches though, and it has helped. It gives me a little boost of confidence and a professional touch as well as being fun to look at. I waffle between a quartz movement and an antique 21 jewel hand-wind movement. I actually found the hand-wind movement to be more effective for me because I have to set it every day and fuss with it. But I end up wearing the modern quartz every day because I don't want to damage the antique watch. I have been considering picking up a less fragile manual piece that I can wind all the time without feeling bad about treating it as a utility object.

I have a phone alarm series for my getting ready tasks in place, but I have a terrible habit of bending the rules. I currently allow 2 hours for getting ready to leave the house. I could try adding another 30 minutes to allow for more wiggle room, I suppose.

I have talked to my boss before about how I have a hard time with understanding time after a particularly egregious streak. Thankfully, they are a compassionate person even though I'm not sure they totally understand what's going on with me because no one else has this problem at my work. I just really don't want them to feel that I take that for granted, so I'm really trying to solve this.

I've got it down to only 5-15 minutes late most recently, which is a huge accomplishment for me, but still not all the way. Plus I'm always afraid of slipping back.

StrangeAlienCreature

4.8y

You sound like you are well on your way to eliminating this problem for yourself. Well done.

The particular smart watch I wear is the Fitbit Alta HR, which is relatively inexpensive for a smart watch if you were interested in the vibration type alarm style.

I’m glad your supervisor is flexible and sympathetic. It goes a long way in helping you to improve when you have a supportive supervisor on your side.

One thing I forgot to mention due to being completely brain dead last night when I posted my reply: getting into a stable routine will help a lot with time distortions if you’re able to. Get up and go to bed at the same time every day if your schedule allows it. If your schedule is inconsistent and you’re getting up and going to bed at wildly different times each day, this will contribute to time distortions. Over time a routine will turn into muscle memory and you will be a lot more confident in your ability to manage your time successfully.

I hope you are able to find a long term solution to your problems.

thewayofxen

4.8y

I have a particular issue with getting up in the morning that I've found causes of in my childhood. Mainly, when I was sent to kindergarten, it felt like extreme punishment. My parents didn't tell me why I was going. No talk or anything; they just made me go, and virtually everything they made me do was a punishment, so that's how I felt about it. Whenever I got to wake up on my own, my body took it real slow. I insisted on laying in bed for an hour before getting up. And when I grew up into an adult with a job, if there was any wiggle room on when I arrived, I took it. I'd get in as late as I could get away with, every day. It was an expression of anger, of defiance. You can't make me get up. I choose when I get up. The problem is that the "You" was my parents, not my employers.

My therapist helped me dig this up by asking a really simple question. I told him I needed to wake up at around 7:30am, and he asked, "What does that time of day remind you of?" And it all came running to me. Waking up for school against my will for 13 years affected me in a big way, and I suddenly knew that. I did the same thing for every time of the day, just to see what came up, and I learned a ton about myself. Maybe a similar exercise will help you.

nevernotdistracted

2mo

Oh fuck I know it's been 4 years but thank you for sharing this. Has anything else helped you with this?

thewayofxen

2mo

It's actually fun to have this stuff dug up! What I said in that second paragraph is what helped me: Reflect on time-of-day-specific emotions that may be lurking in the background, and then process and work through them. I don't have this problem anymore, like at all. I wake up and work on hobbies and projects until it's time for work.

[deleted]

4.8y

I have impeccable sense of time (literally never wear a watch, ask me what time it is and I can tell very closely except when it's dark then I can be off by up to 45 minutes), trained by a former job where you were constantly writing how long every little task took, and yet am always late regarding the going out of the house because it makes me anxious, so my insight is the speckle of agoraphobia likely has a larger role than you think and you're trying to avoid getting out of the house as long as possible somewhere too and it may alleviate a lot if you could tackle that.

la_lurkette

4.8y

Yeah, as much as I'd like not to have issues with agoraphobia, I think I do. I've, say, intended to do something nice outside on the weekend before, but ended up not actually leaving the house, choosing to do some unimportant household busywork instead. Then I feel guilty and frustrated about that. I've been able to force myself out of the house much more easily this year than past years, thankfully. And I always feel happy once I'm doing the thing I set out to. But the act of leaving is still "a thing" with me.

Could have something to do with being walled off in my room for a great deal of my childhood, always 'grounded' for something or other after a little round of mild physical abuse by my father before my mother came home.

Frustrated_Barnacle

4.8y

I don't know if this will help but as a kid my brother had a friend who was always late, no matter what the event was. School, party, general hanging out. He was always around an hour late.

So what his friends started to do was tell him to that the events were going on an hour before there actual time (except for school ofc, he wouldn't have believed that).

Is it possible for you to do something similar? You know you have to be at work for, say 10am. But actually no, you have insert task here to do this morning and maybe want to talk to your boss early, so really you have to be there for 9.30am?

I myself struggle with getting to appointments and such and having it turn me into a nervous puddle, so I try and get there 20 minutes early. I have a phone so it isn't like I'd ever struggle for things to do. And that 20 minutes (even if I'm late then and I am 5 minutes early) let's me have some time to calm myself down a bit.

la_lurkette

4.8y

Ha, my best friend totally adds an hour to when we're supposed to do something.

Getting to work early is like my dream. My very boring sad dream. I currently allow myself 2 hours lead time to any given being-on-time thing. I am going to add 30 minutes to that, even though it feels ridiculous, and see how that goes.

Shariean

4.8y

I have CPTSD and recently diagnosed with ADHD, it made perfect sense when I read the symptoms, maybe look into getting checked out? 😄

la_lurkette

4.8y

I've always ruled out ADHD because I can pay very close attention to details for extended periods of time. Things like deep research or repetitive tedious problem-solving tasks are very easy, almost soothing to me. In fact, I have trouble switching tasks or subject matter. Like when I'm working on my database and my co-worker starts talking to me about their hobby, I find it impossible to switch my attention back and forth.

KingGamerEX

10d

ADHD is a difficulty with controlling attention, not a decifit of the capacity for attention itself, if you are talking about having difficulty focusing on your coworker when you choose to them it's worth seeing a professional. **Not a professional

Zoler

4.8y

Have had the same problem a lot. Figured out that the reason are being afraid that my coworkers and boss dislikes me so I give them a reason to. It's better than trying my best and still getting disliked because then I don't have a choice and no control. So it's a control issue really.

la_lurkette

4.8y

That's a great point. I have a great deal of control at my job, and have trouble giving up even a little bit of it, even to my boss. I totally get along with them too, but I have always silently struggled with self-doubt and devaluation.

Zoler

4.8y

It's very difficult because it can be hard to give yourself compassion when you haven't been shown much, but try it! It was a long process for me but it's getting better with everytime I pause for a moment and listen to myself, just like I would to another. :)

[deleted]

4.8y

I feel ya. I'm always late for work, but for different reasons. Usually I'm never late for anything, always making sure to turn up at least 10 minutes early. That makes me beat myself up even more for my sleepy morning routine.

[deleted]

4.8y

Odd, I am the complete opposite. I get anxiety from not being 30 minutes early.

[deleted]

4.8y

I've been in the same boat in the past. Which is weird considering I had a job where deadlines were extremely important.

Caveat, I can be pretty damn rough and reckless with myself, so these tips may or may not work for you.

I realized it meant very little to me whether it was 7:30 or 9:30 or 11:30, but it mattered to everything else in my life. So I needed a plan that would take into account all the other stuff that's going on, because me not really caring too much about time isn't 100% of reality, since I live in a world with other people. But I didn't feel any kind of pressure to be on time at work on most days, in fact I resented the obligation.

At first, I just went overboard and started waking up extremely early, like 4:30 AM when I needed to be present at 7:30. I could get into the building at any hour, because I had my own key and the office allowed people to stay very late, or come in early for overseas calls, and my accounts were insane (because I had no boundaries, it turns out) so it never seemed out-of-place.

I got a metric ton of work done that way when I managed to come in too early, and on other days I was merely not-late. I gradually decided I could be the one controlling my arrival times... because waking up at 4:30 gave me enough time to journal every single damn thing I did during the morning and I eventually realized I was doing a ton of shit I didn't need to do right then.

Like... putting away dishes, or even washing them. Sorting clothes. Taking the trash out that morning, instead of the night before. I even started a load once...! Those things, I just stopped doing because I could now rationalize that they were not necessary in the mornings. I listed them off and moved them to "night before" tasks, or "weekend" tasks.

I noticed that I hadn't packed my bag the night before and usually scrambled to find everything I needed during the morning brainfog. So that went onto the night-before list.

(I've also started keeping lists for other things: hiking items, interview kit, overnight trips... It just helps keep everything out of my head! It's anxiety-reducing, too.)

I noticed I was scrambling to make food in the morning, for breakfast or lunch. I started meal-prepping during the weekends, and buying more frozen food I could just grab and go.

Sometimes, I would procrastinate and make coffee to go at the last minute. That was harder to stop: but I enjoy iced coffee, so I've started making my morning cup of joe the night before, storing in the fridge, and it's still OK to my taste the morning I drink it.

Then I started going to restaurants instead of meal-prepping.... That became expensive and also made me late in the mornings, it was also harder to stop because it's so convenient, I love variety etc. So what I did is change the places I went to, picked coffee shops or restaurants that opened earlier so I could still sometimes enjoy a different meal, and not have it break my bank account or make me late.

On some days I would just be paralyzed... I'd sit... and do nothing. I wouldn't leave. Those times made me puzzled, made me feel powerless and out of control. On most mornings I could just pick myself up, with the feeling still running amok, and go anyway. On others, I had to call in or work from home.

What helped, eventually, was realizing that the feeling NEEDED to be there; it needed to be acknowledged, but at the same time I couldn't give it complete control over my life, because I am living my life, not that feeling! It helped to divide it from my identity; that feeling was a part of me I did not like, it didn't deserve to overrule all of the rest of me with dumb paralysis. So I decided to negotiate with it... it could stay there as long as it needed to, but I was going to do the other stuff I needed to do, anyways.

rareavis434

4.8y

That was awesome!

[deleted]

4.8y

I'd be happy if this helped just one other person. Thanks for saying that :)

rareavis434

4.8y

I mean it 😉😀😀

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ino_y

4.8y

Yep my ex had inattentive ADHD

https://totallyadd.com/do-i-have-add/

Took me 2 years to figure it out, he had like 50 other symptoms, thought he was on the spectrum for a while.

He had a lot of weird habits, he was hiding a lot of symptoms, he was always late coming over, had no clue how long had passed (minutes, months), had 10 apples at a time in his fridge, would always forget 1 thing on a shopping list, or come home with something else, 3 hours later. couldn't "plan backwards" to arrive on time, eg Movie starts at 9, get to restaurant at 7:30, leave house at 7, get in shower at 6 etc. He'd be on youtube until 8 and.. you know the rest.

I'm the complete opposite, basically have a HUD calendar in my head. We'd joke about switching brains so he could see what normal mode is like. You're on hard mode and I feel for you.

I got him a dementia clock and a big calendar for Christmas. he got a fitbit and 2 more clocks in his house.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71awo7V-4lL._SX522_.jpg

The app Habitica helped with the procrastination. I think he got another app which chunked tasks down into more achievable goals.

maybe a calendar whiteboard? this is basically what my head looks like, with future events written in.

https://www.wallpops.com/images/thumbs/0001062_whiteboard-weekly-dry-erase-calendar-decal_600.jpeg

He was very excited by this Ted Talk on procrastination

https://www.ted.com/talks/tim_urban_inside_the_mind_of_a_master_procrastinator?language=en

la_lurkette

4.8y

I've always ruled out ADD and ADHD because I can pay very close attention to detail oriented tasks for extended periods of time. I can (and love to) achieve deep focus on the same task for up to 10 hours straight if I'm really into it. If anything, I have trouble switching tasks or subjects. I don't really take breaks at work because I find them to be a waste of time and it kills my momentum of thought process.

When I'm not "in the zone" so to speak, I do keep a tight calendar because I have to meet with a lot of suppliers for my job, but I try to schedule them in certain blocks of time so talking to people doesn't overlap with my computery stuff.

ino_y

4.8y

Yeah hyper focus is a symptom. I had to break my ex out by touching him or he’d never get up.

FaithCPR

4.8y

When I was young I was like this. At first. Never on time, always losing things. The screaming from my mom eventually made me compulsively early. I check my pockets and bag reflexively at the door, just outside the door, in the car, just outside the car, and so on. Dread clutches at my heart if I can't locate something I'm supposed to have within several seconds. I show up anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour early. Which makes me anxious because I'm not supposed to be there yet so I just wait nervously and usually chain smoke until I'm ready to vomit.

I think my method for time, the way I deal with the opposite issue, might actually help you. I started timing things. How long does it take me to brush my hair. How long does it take to drive to X place, with traffic and without. How long does it take, at the latest, to find the right shirt. Then you add it together and you don't have to worry about "feeling" how long you're taking; you know how long you're taking. Like "I brushed my hair and teeth and got dressed which means 12 minutes have passed so now it's X time and I have Y time to get there".

It doesn't fix everything, of course, but it does make me feel better. I hope that maybe helps a bit.

la_lurkette

4.8y

Thanks for sharing that with me. It's tough how the things other people did continue to negatively affect us today.

I got yelled at a lot for just about anything I did as as a feature of a larger picture of emotional and physical neglect and abuse. I would fear my father the most after school before my mom came home, expecting to get yelled at, hurt, then isolated in my room in a regularly occurring cycle for years.

My way of rebelling was skipping school, or getting there late because they left the house before me. I started not coming home/running away around 12, finally leaving for good and going off on my own at 15. This meant dropping out of high-school and being left completely un-tethered for the first time.

I had a really unhealthy and embarrassingly messy living situation when I was first on my own because I didn't *have* to do anything or answer to that asshole all of a sudden. It took me years to get my shit together and keep up a house on my own volition. I feel like this lateness thing is a vestige of this crap and I just can't seem to shake it.

I will really try to alter my thought process when I'm anxiously getting ready since I already allow myself plenty of time and have alarms going off to keep the pace of that time.

rareavis434

4.8y

Whatever time you are to clock in. Clock In. If it's 10am then you are scheduled at 9:45 am. You need to get yourself together, put your shit away, wash your hands, maybe change into your uniform. It's important to realize chronic lateness is a form of control. You are being manipulative. As a boss for years, I never gave a shit if my line employees were up to 15 mins late. I'd tell to call if they would be longer than because I'd worry.
Nobody came in sweaty and freaked out. Or had a car accident. And shhhhh, NEVER EVER LATE.

Streetmamamona

4.8y

Exactly like me. One of my biggest problems is being ready to leave and then I feel like I forgot something so I spend 15 trying to figure out what I forgot and I get sidetracked by other things.

The_Toot_Jerry

4.8y

I've come to learn that poor grasp of time is an indication I may be disassociating. Chronically misplacing things also. Repeating myself.