Is it repressed feelings? Anger? Low self esteem? Is it physical? Emotional? Is it the inner critic? What actually is it and what is its function?
The abandonment and neglect we experience does feel a lot like depression
Is that what Pete Walker refers to as the abandonment depression?
That's exactly what i mean
I don't think I'd say depression as a function, per se... It's disordered, just like CPTSD.
I have major depressive disorder on top of CPTSD. My personal bouts of depression haven't really been related to my inner critic or anything like that. It's just a really low feeling. It's definitely both physical and emotional, that's for sure.
I feel like I'm in a rather unique position to answer this question because I've healed my trauma, but I still deal with depressive episodes - although there very different now. It's hard for me to put into words what it's like... Kind of like if "everything sucks" was an emotion, it would be depression. Once in awhile, I start feeling that way, like everything sucks and I hate everything. It feels really trite to refer to it that way, but I don't have better words for it.
Before my trauma healed, it was a lot worse. I'd dip into suicidality, I'd sabatoge my relationships. I didn't really have the coping skills to manage it, I guess. I often would mistake a depressive episode for a trigger, or vice versa, and that made things really complicated to try and parse out.
Now, it's just a low hum. I know exactly what it is, and maybe that's partially why it isn't so bad. The moment I start feeling low, I give myself space, and thanks to healing I can give myself compassion too. Knowing what's happening really helps make it bearable, because... How can I put this.... I know that I can "trust" that I "can't trust" my emotional reactions when it happens. I feel like that's not going to come across well lol
Depression is such a visceral thing, it's often hard to verbalize. But this is my experience, I hope at least some of it makes sense ❤️
Maybe that’s its function in your case - maybe it’s telling you there’s a need for space and self compassion?
Eh....
It would be nice to think of it like that. But it's like a chicken or the egg issue. Thankfully I don't any longer have issues with giving myself compassion. So then, the depression is more like a reason I need to give myself compassion, than the other way around, if that makes sense.
You know, I'll tell you something. I used to have these long philosophical conversations in my head about the purposes things serve or seem to serve, about the reasons - or lack thereof - why things happen, or why our minds do what they do.
And I've come to the conclusion that some things really just serve no purpose. Depression, anxiety, are examples of this. Even if it could be argued that they're a response to trauma, they still don't serve us, and they definitely don't serve us well. Depression keeps me from being as functional as I could be, and anxiety kept me from functioning at all.
I also think there's this thing, about depression. It doesn't make sense, if you think about it. I don't get sad about any particular thing, I just get sad. Sometimes, out of the blue I'll suddenly decide I'm not happy in my categorically safe, secure, loving and happy relationship. It's something that is so nonsensical in fact, that saying it now feels rather embarrassing.
Maybe one day we'll find a concrete, absolute reason for why depression happens to people ❤️
Different things help different people!
I know for me, finding the positive intent of depression and anxiety has been crucial. Whereas for you it’s been the opposite.
One of the reasons it’s so challenging to treat mental health!
Thankyou so much for your thoughtful responses. This year I’m constantly in and out of depression. Might feel alright for a little while then I feel it creeping back. I am at the beginning of recovery. Can I ask what tools you used to recover please?
Well, for me, mainly it was processing my trauma in therapy - talk therapy, I'm on Medicaid, and didn't really have an option. A long with meds and journalling. Writing was actually my single greatest asset outside of therapy. I used it to gather my thoughts between sessions, to work through spirals, I even journalled my nightmares.
I know the idea of talking about your trauma can be terrifying. But it can help in so many ways. It helped me realize the abuse wasn't my fault, that I didn't deserve it or in any way cause the abuse or cause my abusers to become abusive - which helped me start the grieving process.
Do you have any tips for when depressed? How did you learn self compassion?
Inner child work helped a lot with this. At some point in therapy, it became clear that it was much easier for me to show compassion to other people, than it was to show myself compassion.
So, what I did was, sort of my own take on inner child work maybe... This is hard to verbalize, so I hope this makes sense. I pictured my inner child in my mind, and then talked to her, "as if she was me", and validated "her" struggles.
It has two really healing effects. First, it definitely helped to heal my inner child, but second, it was a way for me to show myself compassion, without my self hatred getting in the way.
Aside from that, processing my trauma really helped a lot. At some point it became abundantly clear to me that these awful things I'd been subjected to weren't my fault, or because I was somehow fundamentally flawed, or even about me at all. I was a casualty of their internal war.
Placing the blame for my abuse squarely where it belonged helped me to figure out that I'm not some awful person that made my abusers abusive, I'm just a person, who was unlucky enough to be born to shitty parents, and as a result, wasn't given the life skills necessary to form relationships or even take care of myself properly.
All of this helped me finally feel a shred of confidence that I'm a person who's worthy of love, kindness, compassion and respect.
I think I am starting emdr or re-scripting with my therapist next week
Maybe it just the natural response to humans living on a planet that is dying rapidly by ecocide, huge wealth, health and educational disparities that appear to be getting wider.
Collectively our birth rate is dropping while our life expectancy is decreasing (in the US) Institutions are failing us, the health system will either kill you (medical error 3rd cause of hospital deaths) or bankrupt you (one of the leading reason why folks are in debt). Suicide and overdoses account for a large percentage of deaths and most people who die by suicide are leaving families behind. The vicarious trauma, stress and hyper vigilance are all mixed in.
The federal educational system is a joke and most higher education is inaccessible to many without loans. It’s hard for some young people to feel hopeful. Young folks are even having less sex than others in previous generations.
Those factors are systemic, but in the larger most basic collective picture.. humans require access to fresh water, clean air and affordable nutrient based food. All of these requirements to ensure our longevity are under a constant state of attack.
For me, depression is one of many responses to living during a period of collapse on the ecological, political and economical decompensation.
damn these comments are trash
I think it's mostly anger that you toward within. It's usually built up over your whole life, for example when we are children and our parents treat us badly, we can't really admit to ourselves something is wrong with our parents, so we naturally assume we were "bad" which is the reason we are treated badly. That's essentially the core of (C)PTSD. It also has a lot to do with shame. In reality, we are angry at our parents and maybe other "loved ones", but we have been repressing these feelings for so long, it is not that easy to identify them.
Depression is also just general lack of energy and life force. In an extreme case it can also include anhedonia (inability to experience joy). Also feeling like everything is hopeless and will never get better. Even if you rationally understand that can't possibly be the case, you just can't help the feeling. This feeling of hopelessness combined with anger and hatred towards oneself can lead to suicidal ideation unfortunately.
I think the best cure of depression is to acknowledge and feel your feelings, both good and bad. "Feel it to heal it". It's not easy though, you've been repressing those feelings for a reason and when you finally get to feel them... Well, that feels like being torn apart from the inside if I am being honest. But it is all worth it in the end when you notice positive change in yourself and your life afterwards.
Thankyou for this. I’ve just read Pete Walker and finding it challenging to implement his teachings. Currently depressed, do I apply his flashback steps to depression? Is depression a flashback? Someone told me That depression and anxiety are your inner child needing something from you. That seems hopeful but yes, so hard to go into the pain.
You are most welcome. It's a great book, I should reread it myself because I forgot almost everything. To be honest, I can't really give practical advice to you as to how to apply his book. I think flashbacks are tightly connected to CPTSD because they are essentially the thoughts and emotions that we spend so much energy repressing all the time, we barely have the energy for anything else and hence feel depressed. The inner child work is crucial for healing from trauma, but based on my personal experience I can say that it can be devastating to do on your own because you never know what issues will arise to the surface. It's possible you won't feel "functional" afterwards for some time, because the pain is too strong. Is it possible for you to work with a therapist? A trauma-informed one would be the best choice or simply the one you like and trust.
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5mo
this makes sense
It's hopelessness, helplessness. The mind does everything it can to find love and push away pain, but can't find any way so it gets locked in predictions that ends badly and the loop goes on. It's like, "I do this" -> pain "what about this" -> pain so it crashes and depression begins.
How to deal with it?
Psychedelics, used safely with the right people (this part Is extremely important), fastest and most effettive route, but also more dangerous. Other practices with expanded states of consciousness (holotropic breathing, somatic experiencing...).
This is my opinion, society will tell you "go to therapy", but I think it sucks.
Have you tried somatic experiencing?
Yes, it wrecked my psyche. I live in a continuous, uninterrupted terror since then.
Omg that's awful. I'm so sorry. Why did you recommend it?
Because until she messed me up I could feel it working, unlike anything I've seen in typical talk therapy. I was getting better super fast. I guess since it can be so effettive it can also be dangerous.
I really am so sorry, I thought it would be gentle. I hope and pray you find relief.
Thank you. It is gentile if you do it by the book. Therapists can mess up though and they have even more power than in your typical talk therapy. And of course they refuse any accountability like usual. Still, having felt the effettiveness of it at first, I feel like I must put it in the list.
“Depression is anger directed at yourself.”
Who is that quote from please?
Learned helplessness.
I hate that it is but for me it has always felt like that is a somewhat accurate description.
Yes I feel extremely hopeless and have learned this for decades
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Reasonable apathy.
I would say it’s the felt byproduct of a survival strategy that protects you through the avoidance of scenarios that consist of any risk that could cause damage to your self worth.