Cyclists and traffic rules- help me understand

Question

Today I was driving to work and I needed to turn left at Burloak onto North Service Road. If you're familiar with this intersection, it can be a frustrating one to turn left at and gets easily congested (right by the Burlington convention center)

I was waiting for an opportunity to turn left at the green light, and when I finally had an opening a cyclist, who was on the sidewalk and not on the road went right through the red hand pedestrian crosswalk. I didn't go, because I knew he was going through it but I was met with a bunch of honking behind me. The light then turned red so I couldn't go.

I just want to know for my own sake: do cyclists have to follow road rules like other vehicles only if they're on the road, and pedestrian rules when they're on the sidewalk...or even on the sidewalk do they follow vehicle rules? I just want to check who had the "right of way" in this case.

in BurlingtonONby lindafromevildead

71%

17d

gracefulames

17d

When one is riding a bicycle on the sidewalk and comes to an intersection, a cyclist is required to stop, dismount their bicycle, and walk it across.

Source: a Halton regional police officer.

JuanJazz123

17d

I remember doing this as a kid 😭😂

ForswornForSwearing

17d

Absolutely never happens, though.

dancinglepard

-2

17d

Correct me if I'm wrong, but by the book, cyclists aren't allowed on the sidewalk to begin with, are they?

markh100

17d

No, Burlington has madee everything super confusing by allowing cycling on the sidewalk here. As a former Toronto cyclist, I hate driving my bike here.

WiartonWilly

16d

But then, Burlington adjusted the rule to say “no cycling on sidewalks downtown”, but it is not clear exactly where this applies.

Burlington not making sidewalk cycling illegal is just the flip-side of not wanting to spend the money/time/effort to make road cycling safe.

MichelloDSloth

17d

I believe legally you can ride your bike on the sidewalk (regardless, I would up there just for my own safety). If a pedestrian were to walk across that crossing with the red-hand signal I do believe they'd be in trouble either.

All of these right-of-way rules also stipulate "...and if it is safe to do so...", so in this instance it wouldn't have been safe to turn left with the cyclist there.

It sounds like you did the right thing by waiting, and the people behind you didn't see what was going on.

Necessary_Hall5584

17d

You technically had the right of way, but when it comes to being in a car the law would always support the bicycle or pedestrian if an accident occurs between the two of you.

Kobe_no_Ushi_Y0k0zna

17d

Sorry, but you NEVER have the right of way while making a Left turn. If anything at all happens, you are at fault. Same as if one is reversing.

WiartonWilly

16d

In practice, the law always supports the driver.

If you want to get away with murder, do it with a car.

Side_Icy

17d

Don’t hit anyone with your car even if you have the right of way. You’ll have a hard time explaining to a judge.

Mysterious-Ear7209

17d

Legally, cyclists are required to dismount and walk their bikes through a crosswalk. In practice, most cyclists ride through. There are logical reasons for this - it takes a lot of effort to stop and start as a cyclist, so there's a natural desire to remain in motion. In Burloak there's a multi-use path south of the QEW that effectively dumps cyclists onto the sidewalk, so as a cyclist it's natural to stay on the sideway across the QEW. (It also feels a lot safer than being on the road at the QEW ramps.)

Despite the fact that the cyclist was riding through, this does not mean that you could not be found liable if you hit the cyclist. Section 193 of the HTA places an onus of proof on you, as the driver, to prove that you were not negligent in your actions. This applies in any collision with a pedestrian or cyclist.

Incidentally there are more and more intersections being built with bicycle traffic signals and bike crossings (separate from the crosswalk) that legally allow a cyclist to bike through.

You did the right thing by waiting. Let 'em honk all they want.

skorpora

17d

Well if the cyclist was crossing against the hand, they might have been honking at the cyclist, not you.

PipToTheRescue

17d

I just posted about this same thing yesterday. Drives me nuts.

lindafromevildead

17d

Thank you, yes! I mean I definitely know now the guy had the “right of way” - I felt as though he did so I didn’t go. But like either you’re a vehicle and you follow the rules of the road or you’re not lol I very often see cyclists flip flop between what’s convenient for them: on the road until it’s a red light, then hop up onto the sidewalk to cross with pedestrians lol

raps4lifewastaken

17d

Are you asking if you'd be protected by the law if you saw someone (on foot or on bicycle) in the intersection crossing on a solid hand signal and plowed into them to appease the people behind you honking? Right of way doesn't really matter here. Don't hit people with your car whether or not you have the right of way.

lindafromevildead

17d

Oh I wasn’t planning to appease the people behind me. I didn’t go because I didn’t feel it was my right to but honestly I wasn’t sure. The people behind me just made me second guess myself

AxiomaticSuppository

17d

In general, cyclists shouldn't ride on a sidewalk. That said, there's some conflicting information on this. This site would suggest cyclists (unless they're kids 10 years or younger) shouldn't be on sidewalks. However, https://www.bikelaw.com/2019/06/ontario-bicycle-laws/, points out that municipalities make their own bylaws with respect to riding on sidewalks. Toronto bylaws on this are pretty clear (can't ride on a sidewalk), but I haven't seen any similar Burlington bylaws.

Both sources seem to agree that cyclists shouldn't be riding through a pedestrian crosswalk, though:

If there is a traffic control signal, the cyclist is not permitted to ride within the crosswalk

Regardless of laws, you did the right thing. No point in plowing through the intersection, potentially causing an accident, even if the other person is in the wrong.

Necessary_Hall5584

17d

Another thing, when at an intersection turning left, your car should be creeping in the intersection ready to turn when the opportunity arrives. That way even if the light turns red, you are able to complete your turn whilst everyone is stopping.

Sway86

13d

I'm just gere to say that cyclists have all the rights and drivers have none. Sorry about my bitterness. I live near lakeshore. 😂

BLADE1113

13d

I’m not sorry but my kids are only allowed to ride their bikes on sidewalks. I’d rather them hit an old lady than get hit by a 3000lbs car when some one is changing their gps..

SalsaRider1969

17d

Well, I’m no expert. I am a cyclist and I am a driver so I can only offer my thoughts and opinions.

Cyclists when they are on the road to the best of my knowledge are required to comply with the rules of the road no different than any vehicle. That being said, many of them don’t. In other words they will run stop signs etc.

When you are on the sidewalk, I don’t think you are any different than any pedestrian. if a pedestrian or cyclist is crossing at a crosswalk on a flashing red hand, I do not believe that would constitute hitting them as a motorist, especially if you could clearly see the bike. I am not justifying the cyclists behavior, when they do this stuff they are being total shitheads. I don’t know if you’ve ever driven in Toronto but how many times do you wait to turn while piles of clueless dipshits staring at their cell phones just saunter through the flashing red hand all day every day and they don’t give two shits about the car waiting to turn. In a perfect world I’d be able to run all those stupid asses over.

Bottom line is this, I still think the motorist has the majority of the responsibility and liability in your case. Yeah the people were pissed at you because you didn’t turn, but you really had no choice. You did it the right way. The cyclist was ultimately at fault for the whole mess, but it’s just one of those things I guess you have to live with.

I remember a similar situation with me a few years ago. I was southbound on Brant Street turning left into my neighborhood. It was dark and it was raining so my windows were obscured from the rain. Of course I’m staring southbound into the oncoming northbound headlights which create that temporary blinding when you look away from the bright lights. I’m trying to time my turn. I start my turn and out of the corner of my eye, I see a bike hauling ass southbound on the east sidewalk of Brant Street. The kid was in dark clothes, no lights, no nothing, just hauling ass. Thank God I saw him. In that case, I’m not sure how much fault a driver would have because I absolutely could not see the kid (when I say kid teenager) at all. He came from out of nowhere in my blind spot when I was halfway through my turn. Of course the kid yells at me LOL.

Traveledbore

17d

The Burlington website with the FAQ on cycling is a crazy person. This is one of many unhinged entries

As a cyclist, how should I use protected bike lanes? Cyclists are asked to ride with care by being respectful and courteous. There are many people who cannot ride a bicycle and who need to travel by car.

FutureProg

17d

Wtheck? How does that even answer the question? Link?

adwrx

-1

17d

It doesn't matter what the hand shows, pedestrians have the right of way. Be aware of pedestrians and cyclists at all times. It will be your fault every single time if you hit one

stephenmyoung

-1

17d

It should not be legal to bike on the sidewalk.

lindafromevildead

-2

17d

It’s not and that wasn’t what my post was about at all. I was wondering if, since they were on the sidewalk -if they were a pedestrian they would have had to stop at the don’t walk sign- or if because they were on a bike they got to go through the green traffic light; even though they were on the side walk and not on the road. Either way! I was going to let them go through of course.

doubleeyess

Ward 2

16d

In Burlington it is legal to bike on the sidewalk with the exception of Brant fro. Caroline to Lakeshore

lindafromevildead

15d

I know it is my post wasn’t about whether or not they were allowed on the side walk Jesus Christ lol

Traveledbore

17d

According to the burlingyon website you can legally ride southbound on the sidewalk which confuses me even more

Traveledbore

-3

17d

They had the right of way.

lindafromevildead

17d

I thought so too, and I wasn’t planning on cutting them off. There was just a lot of angry cars behind me lol that I thought I did something wrong

Traveledbore

17d

It’s just rude entitiled Burlington drivers. They clearly couldn’t see someone was crossing. Sorry you had to deal with that. Doesn’t matter if they were juggling on a unicycle if someone is going through the crosswalk you have to wait

Traveledbore

17d

Ha speaking of entitled 2 people downvoted me saying someone should t be allowed to cross at a crossing sign. Not everyone feels comfortable riding on the streets here and I can fully see why. I’ve been almost run over so many times as a pedestrian with a walk symbol and have witnessed countless drivers staring at their phone while careening down the street in a death machine. Since the sidewalks are barely populated I almost prefer to do that when riding. I always hit my bell and make contact with any pedestrian before approaching. The guys zooming by me on a scooter or electric bike when I’m Walking make me so angry though

Kobe_no_Ushi_Y0k0zna

17d

The person you responded to is the only one here that actually got it right. Whether the cyclist should be on the sidewalk is not at all relevant. Nor is the flashing hand. Right of way starts and ends with the green light. You could consider them a vehicle or pedestrian, but they still had right of way (used in a kind of unsafe fashion, but still.)

One other thing is that when waiting to make a Left, you are to pull a bit into the intersection first. If you don’t get an opportunity before the light turns orange, you wait for oncoming traffic to stop for the light, and then make your turn. You should never just be unable to turn if you are the first one waiting. This may be the reason people were honking? No one should expect you to play chicken with a cyclist/pedestrian. Or maybe they thought you had room to do most of your turn as the cyclist crossed and complete the last little bit once they passed. Hard to say, but best not to be too concerned with people behind you, it can affect your awareness.

wrongwayup

-1

17d

Yes, you are allowed to ride your bike on the sidewalk in Burlington. This is rare, most cities don't allow it at all. It also means finding a concise bylaw about it will be hard to find, since laws tell you what you can't do, not what you can...

Scroll to page 35: https://www.burlington.ca/en/council-and-city-administration/resources/Integrated-Mobility-Plan/Burlington-Cycling-Plan-Final.pdf

It is currently legal in Burlington to ride a bicycle on a sidewalk unless there is a sign posted prohibiting it.

That biker was probably riding on the sidewalk to stay away from exactly the kind of impatient drivers you had behind you.

Acceptable_Wall4085

-1

17d

The one time you needed to be followed by a cop. That bicyclist would still be there getting tickets.

Crafty-Fuel-3291

-1

17d

No cops enforce rules. High insurance. High accident. All cops fault

Whenthelogrollsover

-4

17d

Cyclists must obey rules of the road. Bicycles are considered vehicles under the traffic act. Cyclists are technically not permitted to ride on sidewalks but tell that to a 6 year old...

Edit: tell that to an 11 year old.

Subtotal9_guy

Central

17d

Cyclists are explicitly allowed on sidewalks in Burlington.

Whenthelogrollsover

17d

Really? I didn't know that. Can you send me your source?

Subtotal9_guy

Central

17d

It's a bylaw here. Except where signed (Brant street south of Caroline) all bikes are allowed on all sidewalks.

AxiomaticSuppository

17d

If you were to tell a 6 year old, then you'd be telling them they are in fact permitted to ride on a sidewalk.

Children under 10 can ride on the sidewalk until they develop the skills to ride on the road with traffic.

Source: https://www.ontario.ca/page/bicycle-safety