How accurate is Dan Carlin's characterization of Caesar's conquest of Gaul in his podcast "The Celtic Holocaust"? Can it really be considered an early example of genocide directed against Celtic people?

I only ask because I've heard many ancient historians dismiss the label of genocide for events like the sacking of Carthage and so on. Also I've seen a lot of Carlin's specific claims debunked but he usually does a pretty good job, so how accurate's his overall perspective on the Gallic Wars?

Was it really the systemic destruction of Gallic culture and people?

in AskHistoriansby DinocrocodileInactive Flair

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lokomoko99764

6.6y

As a corollary question, to what extent did the Gauls retain self-rule after Caesar's conquest? I've read that they were still allowed to self-govern to some extent, and thus that they weren't really ethnically cleansed as would be implied by genocide. Supposedly Gallic rulers/statesmen were still present during the rise of the Franks after the fall of Western Rome, is that accurate?

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Dinocrocodile

Inactive Flair

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/u/Velenne summed up a lot of Carlin's points, as the title suggests Carlin compares it to a holocaust or genocide. He also makes it appear that the destruction of a Celtic way of life through slaughter, conquest and assimilation was attempted.

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XenophonTheAthenian

Late Republic and Roman Civil Wars

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those Senatorial dispatches

Since when do we know how Caesar was published or what the origin of his texts is?

Caesar says a million

When does he say that? Plutarch says Caesar fought three million men, killed a million, and took a million captives. When does Caesar give a headcount of the total dead?

Caesar himself was prior governor of Trans- and Cisalpine Gaul

Caesar was, at the time of the Gallic war, the proconsul of both Gauls and of Illyricum. He was previously propraetor in Spain. When was he promagistrate of the Gauls prior to 58?

The conquest scourged Gaul to the marrow, and was the vanguard of the later collapse of Celtic society on the continent

Really? Macmullen and most work on Romanization since would seem to disagree. What evidence is there for this?

Caesar does deliberately alienate Gaul from Rome in his Commentarii de Bello Gallico, emphasizing the foreign nature of Gallic society

Does he? In Book 1 he points out how strange the Germans are and again in Books 4 and 5 he enters into an ethnographic digression on the weird Britons. He doesn't have much ethnography on the Gauls, though, and he routinely refers to their communities as civitates, a decidedly un-barbarian term. And what about all his Gallic allies, prior to Vercingetorix's revolt? They're hardly treated as being foreign

tlumacz

Cold War Aviation

6.6y

civitates

Am I correct in assuming that this is the same word that would be used for Roman citizens?

LegalAction

6.6y

A civitas (civitates in the plural) is a city - strictly the political organization of a city, as opposed to urbs, the sort of physical city. A civis is a citizen.

tlumacz

Cold War Aviation

6.6y

I see. Thank you.

LegalAction

6.6y

those Senatorial dispatches

You have evidence that's how the commentarii originated?

later collapse of Celtic society

What's this?

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LegalAction

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Ok, so if this Celtic-speaking culture - which I'm totally happy to accept - "went into steep decline in the following centuries," how is that linked to Caesar's invasion? I mean, Ausonius seems to have been a native Gallic speaker in the 4th century. If there was a Celtic collapse after that, wouldn't Caesar's invasion be a reach?

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LegalAction

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Sure. So how is this linked to Caesar? I offer again Ausonius as evidence that Celtic language culture persisted in the centuries following Caesar's invasion.

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cleopatra_philopater

Hellenistic Egypt

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/u/Shadowbreakr,

Your comment was not removed by the person you are replying to, only mods can do that and regular flaired users obviously do not have that power. In fact, your comment was removed for speculation and lack of depth by a moderator with no stake in this thread.

Please see our rules on sourcing and acceptable answers here.

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