Is It a BS disorder or an actual disorder?
There's a higher recovery rate in countries that don't use antipsychotics or use them less. There's a study on this, but I can't be bothered to dig it up now.
The one I read was talking about recovery rates in India and I think Nigeria. A double digit percentage difference between there and the US
What's the best way to treat schizophrenia then
I would say it would depend on the individual. After ruling out all health and lifestyle problems, maybe they could try AP? If they actually want to. Trauma can cause schizophrenia. I feel like drugs in that case should be a last resort or perhaps a temporary crutch? But yeah individual approach.
apparently you are supposed to ignore it 🤷 i highly disagree
dopamine regulation
It can happen if you have a methylation issue affecting your glutamate levels. Ask your primary to check your folate/homocystein/ and b12 levels. Could be MTHFR.
Meds commonly interact with this genetic mutation making it worse. If you have ptsd, the more your nervous system dysregulates and stress On your body can use up what folate you have and can throw your neurochemicals off in a serious way.
If those levels are off.. ask for the Genesight test to confirm if you have one or two copies of MTHFR mutation. (This is the most common test used to check for potential psych med interactions).
It was the issue for me when I experienced psychosis. From my research it is highly linked to schizophrenia. Thankfully I only have one copy of the mutation so my issues were more mood instability commonly called bipolar with only one serious episode of psychosis when I first came off the psych meds.
I follow the mthfr reddit to help with my supplementation and diet changes as well as having better conversations with my medical team to self advocate.
Wishing you the best of luck.
I believe the actual clinically defined version of schizophrenia only comes into existence after you have been treated by psychiatrists. The meds induce the text book symptoms.
I finally finished the Divided Self by RD Laing which is mostly about schizophrenia. He was a shrink but also a psych skeptic like Szasz.
He believed if you listen to the patient instead of writing them off, their "delusions" do have an inner logic. And that the patient speaks in riddles because they don't trust the psychiatrist and sort of "hide" their real self.
But he thought only the worst cases were actually schizophrenia. So I guess be believed in it.
Yes, people can hallucinate and become paranoid/delusional.
True but that could also be psychosis.
schizophrenia is basically just an extended or chronic psychosis
it´s a lot more than that. it has positive and negative symptoms, with psychosis being one of the positive symptoms
then think of it as permanent psychosis
Wildly incorrect
highly disagree
its has cycles
neither. "schizophrenia" is a diagnosis. it is not a cause of anything, it is not a thing which physically exists, it is just a label for experiences (or alleged experiences) whose actual cause is not being specified. many different kinds of experiences and causes can fall under the messy umbrella label "schizophrenia". the diagnosis does not refer to any specific kind of physical phenomenon, and no physical findings can validate or challenge any psychiatric diagnosis. in theory, these diagnoses are not applicable to medical disorders (or "actual disorder", as you may put it). there is no attempt to even create criteria which refer to a real, physical disorder, and that is the realm of medical science instead. in reality, though, clinicians often partially or entirely ignore that diagnostic criterion excluding medical disorders, especially if they were themselves the cause of the experiences being labeled.
"schizophrenia" does not occupy a unique place in the psychiatric diagnostic schema, all of the diagnoses are bullshit. the very idea of "mental illness" (or "psychiatric disorder") is bullshit. this is even pointed out by any honest psychiatrists, including ones who have been responsible for creating the guidelines that are used by clinicians and researchers worldwide. it is not an objectively controversial or subversive opinion, it is the default philosophical starting position of psychiatry. none of these "disorders" actually exist. they arent that kind of concept. this has no bearing on the nature of the experiences being labeled, though. the experiences are whatever they are regardless of how a clinician is choosing to diagnose them.
im not trying to say that marketing and clinical dogma and threats and pressures cant change how someone perceives their own experiences, or that psychiatric beliefs and behaviors dont change the course of many peoples experiences. im just saying that the experiences which can meet the diagnostic criteria for labels like "schizophrenia" can and do exist out in the world regardless of what psychiatry is doing. psychiatric diagnoses dont explain them, they dont give us more information about them, and they dont tell us how to help any patients that are experiencing them. they are an administrative tool, not a patient aid. nevertheless, plenty of people do have difficult, confusing, or debilitating experiences and psychiatry trying to lie about what that is or means does not delegitimize the experiences themselves in any physical sense.
"Messy umbrella label" you took the words right out of my mouth.
I'm misdiagnosed with schizophrenia. I'm not hearing or seeing things that aren't there. Doc says I have 'positive' and 'negative' symptoms whatever he means by that shit. He says I have to be on meds and or injections for years. Insanity.
Is he forcing you to take meds?
Yes I'm under section so it's forced unfortunately
Jesus that is scary, how did they justify this action to you? Did anything happen that they used against you?
Cos they knew I was trying to avoid the oral tablets to try protect my brain so want to inject me, bastards.
Still waiting for it to be able to be actually diagnosed with proof instead of the dumb shit manual
I have a cough... I could have a cold, I could be irritated from pollen...
The whole notion of hallucinations and hearing voices we have to understand are a possibility for humans to experience
It doesn't mean it's a disease or lifelong disorder
Why are you hearing it / seeing it is another story and is complex and unique for each individual
The poison they offer as medication is like hitting someone over the head so they sleep to treat insomnia
There is hardly any concrete science and what there is is compromised and just benefiting lining someone's pockets with cash. Not to mention silencing political dissidents, abusing survivors and anyone going against the grain of society.
No, it's not real.
Human experiences are
I've used the analogy you did with antipsychotics being like hitting someone on the head to knock them out. Does it achieve the goal of a person being unconscious therefore asleep, yes, but the damage inflicted could be detrimental. I feel antipsychotics achive the same effect of "getting someone stable" like stop hallucinating, but the side effects of forcefully shutting down dopamine receptors is similar to being hit on the head. I wish there were more humane methods of treatment for people experiencing hallucinations/delusions.
I have a friend. I met him 5 years ago and he was a very strange man. He was somewhat functional at the time but always came to very strange conclusions about why things happened. Or had very strange ideas about what other people believed. He would always think his neighbors were spying on him and could hear everything he said. Now he's completely mentally gone. Lies in bed all day. Believes he killed people and did all sorts of horrible things that he most likely didn't do. He believes he needs to set himself on fire to suicide but he's too scared to do it. I'm not sure if it's schizophrenia but it's some sort of long term psychosis.
It does not exist. Though you will find many people sharing many anecdotal stories of acquaintances and family members acting strange and saying strange things, and calling it schizo not one single molecule of "schizophrenia" has ever been found in all of scientific history, nor will it ever be. It's an interpretation of someone's communication behavior and judgment you pass on someone to make them seem not human and without rights and free will.
Bleuler, the nazi who invented the label , was literally trying to scientifically classify a type of dissident personality that was impervious to coerced thought adjustment, who needed to be exterminated for the Reich to be rid of potential inside resistance. And hundreds of thousands of people were put to death for "schizophrenia" before ever a Jew was put in a box car.
In the soviet era, it was standard practice to dx any thought crime with schizophrenia and remove the person from society to silence dissent and criticism of the State.
Now they just euthanize your souls because yay, progress. But it's the same beast, you, the best parts of you, are destroyed because they can offend and inconvenience those with more clout than you.
If the consensus here is that schizophrenia exists, this place needs to be shut down immediately because it's an industry shill honey pot.
I think the definition is open to interpretation, since the group of symptoms are not indicative of the illness itself. For example, 'negative symptoms' like depression or anhedonia can be interchangeable with the symptoms of Major Depressive Disorder, therefore the negative symptoms are not exclusive to the schizophrenia diagnosis. Positive symptoms are in my opinion poorly understood and should be explored more in a therapeutic context to find the symbolic meaning of the symptoms. Nowadays, they just throw meds at the problem to make it go away. I would argue that the symptoms manifested by schizophrenia should actually be treated separately. I am extremely critical of the fact that schizophrenia seems to have no 'cause'. In my opinion that violates the principle of cause and effect and the theory behind schizophrenia is highly improbable. I believe in the supernatural, therefore I think the true cause or explanation for schizophrenia will naturally involve the supernatural, yet this is only my speculation for now.
Psychosis itself is not a specific disorder but rather a symptom that can be associated with mental health conditions and medical situations. Kind of like how suicidal tendencies isn’t a disorder, but a symptom.
Schizophrenia also isn’t just psychosis, hallucinations, and delusions it comes with a range negative symptoms like emotional connection problems, decreased attention, anhedonia, executive functioning problems, and problems with memory.
So, yes schizophrenia is a real disorder because it significantly impacts a person's ability to function in daily life and requires long-term treatment. Genetic studies indicate a hereditary component, and environmental factors such as prenatal exposure to infections or malnutrition, and psychosocial stressors are also linked to the development of the disorder.
There is some good research on schizophrenia, I consider it a real disorder. That doesn’t change the fact that psychiatry is heavily flawed. But, schizophrenia itself is a proper disorder.
thats nonsense. i never had psychosis, any hallucinations nor delusions, not even while taking psychedelics. a shrink wanted to diagnose me with psychosis, because i criticized a colleague of his, who had emotionally abused me. psychosis is just made up to silence people. also your "psychosis" improves after you have taken psychedelics. it all doesnt add up. im convinced that most people never had had any hallucinations that get such a diagnosis.
If a shrink wanted to diagnose you with psychosis because you challenged a colleague that’s, silencing not a proper diagnosis. And psychedelics is my specialty, and research shows that psychedelics are some of the worst things for people for suffering with psychosis so I don’t know where you got that from.
So, just because YOU’ve never had psychosis, and YOU know people who get a bullshit psychosis diagnosis doesn’t mean that psychosis doesn’t exist.
I knew a schizophrenic who had a top ten favorite movies of all time, with favorite actors from those movies, and favorite scenes from those movies. None of the movies, actors, or scenes existed in this reality, he made them all up in his mind and was convinced they were real. That’s psychosis. Just because you’ve had some experiences that delegitimize psychosis, doesn’t mean it’s not real.
"research shows that psychedelics are some of the worst things for people for suffering with psychosis so I don’t know where you got that from"
i have tried it. i am diagnosed with psychosis, had shrooms, and my "psychosis" got better. it#s not my fault, when your colleagues are assholes.
no, i don't know that. just like you don't know. since i never had any hallucinations, but that shrink wanted to prove me that i am psychotic at all costs, it is valid to conclude they do that with all people that had got the same diagnosis.
this is were abusing diagnoses for ego purposes lead to. so tell your fck colleagues to stop being idiots.
It's not just hallucinations...
This gives me a couple questions. Who do you think are my colleagues? What do you think your “psychosis” is? What symptoms are your “psychosis”?
Because, it seems like you don’t even think you have psychosis. You’ve never had hallucinations, people with hallucinations and delusions traditionally are considered psychotic, and are worsened with psychedelics. I’m not trying to be a smartass, but it doesn’t take a genius to understand you don’t have psychosis and was just being brutally institutionalized by an evil system.
I don’t give out diagnosis, I’m not a psychiatrist, but from what all I know about psychosis is sounds like you’re clear of it.
And no, it’s not valid to think that just because you went through a horrible traumatic experience, every experience relating to similar diagnosis are done in the same fashion. Losely unrelated but the Kendrick Lamar song “mother, I sober” tackles this. There is a moment in the song where Kendrick’s mother does not believe he was NOT sexually assaulted. Because, Kendrick’s mother was sexually assaulted, she believed Kendrick was, even though he wasn’t.
I’ve been through drug induced psychosis before personally. I don’t think the doctors were trying to simply institutionalize me with a diagnosis, I think I was out of my god damn mind. So, I’m sorry you feel this way, but this is just a process of realizing everyone’s experience is different, and not all paths that life follows are the same for everyone.
You were treated horribly, you sound like you obviously don’t have psychosis.
I was also treated horribly I was given a false Major depressive disorder diagnosis when I’m really bipolar. Do I think every person with major depressive disorder is really just hidden bipolar? No, because not everyone’s me.
So, to summarize; I can’t tell my colleagues who will never diagnose anyone a day in their life to go fuck themselves for poor diagnosing since what did they do💀 You’re points are valid, it’s understandable to feel this sort of way, but it’s simply not true. You were dealt a bad hand, and that’s horrible. Some people are just simply delusional, they have delusions, they have hallucinations. It’s not like all doctors are just gaslighting their patients to believe that they themselves are out of their mind, it’s not how psychosis works.
0fc you are right there - i dont know if other people really experience hallucinations and delusions or not.
honestly, i just like to play some kind of uno reverse, and conclude that if they insist me being psychotic despite lacking the required symptoms no one really ever had any and its just a story in psychiatrists minds. i'm sorry to have i invalidated your experience there.
It’s alright! Just wanted to clarify that psychosis isn’t a hoax, psychosis can be really serious. But, it doesn’t discount your experience with psychosis diagnosis and the right to be skeptical your feelings are valid, just know not everyone has the same experience with it. Like I hear people get diagnosed with bipolar and adhd all the time, and think it’s a bullshit diagnosis. While on the other hand I’m diagnosed with both, and think the diagnosis is extremely accurate, but who knows.
Your response doesn't logically follow their comment. They're saying these symptoms exist in a characteristic clump that gets identified as a disorder. You're saying you never had any of those symptoms (and we can only take you at your word), so your experience is not one of psychosis or schizophrenia and the topic is not about you. Your experience would be an example of medical malpractice and misdiagnosis, not schizophrenia. You seem to be implying that "I never had psychosis therefore psychosis doesn't exist for anyone else either."
 it comes with a range negative symptoms like emotional connection problems, decreased attention, anhedonia, executive functioning problems, and problems with memory.
The negative symptoms associated with this diagnosis are always caused by the antipsychotics prescribed to treat psychosis.
it significantly impacts a person's ability to function in daily life and requires long-term treatment
The ability to function is also significantly affected by the antipsychotics. It have been proven that long-term treatment decreases the chances of "work functioning". Antipsychotics cause cognitive impairment. Read studies by Martin Harrow if you want to know more.
http://wayneramsay.com/schizophrenia.htm
http://www.wayneramsay.com/drugs.htm
I don't know why are you posting here to be honest.
Two things can be true at the same time. Schizophrenia has negative symptoms. Antipsychotics cause negative symptoms. I don’t know why what I said supposedly means I think the opposite of what you said.
I’m just saying the reasons why schizophrenia is considered a disorder to this guy. Schizophrenia traditionally significantly affects people’s lives, and usually people need to treat it, in some way shape or form. That “treatment” I speak of doesn’t necessarily have to be psychiatric, some people have hallucination dogs, some people meditate and it works, some people do a ketogenic diet. So, I understand where you’re coming from, I don’t disagree with you.
I disagree with idea that the negative symptoms of schizophrenia are only from antipsychotics, since I’ve known many schizophrenic people personally who’s had all the negative side effects without ever taking an antipsychotic. It’s also just simply not true, I don’t really know how to make sense of it, that’s just how schizophrenia as we know it has always been. I can’t really say anything to that besides “that’s not real” you feel me?
I agree with the fact that antipsychotics cause many problems, including impairing cognitive function. Definitely, I’ve been on an antipsychotic and it made my adhd like 3x worse.
Schizophrenia is a genuine thing. It's not just delusions and hallucinations, schizophrenics also have cognitive and neurological symptoms. But it's over diagnosed and rights are unfairly stripped from those with the diagnosis.
fme psychosis and schizophrenia do exist and meds are sometimes required to keep it at bay. psychiatry is not complete bs. but it definitely has its flaws that are worth criticising
it's only required until a person successfully stops having psychosis without the meds... and then it's "misdiagnosis" or they're "still having symptoms". the biggest factor for relapse or even initial occurrence is stress, and chemical imbalance isn't proven, only caused by these drugs.
idk. i have worked as a social worker with people with chronic schizophrenia. i am harmed by ssris and i hate to admit this but some folks can not live without the pills. in some people schizophrenia is severe and chronic, they need the medication. i´m not saying there isn´t another way but i don´t think it has been found yet. it´s just my experience, it is okay to criticize me for it but i have seen it first hand.
people can't live without the pills because the withdrawal is unbearable for many. and the reason they go on them in the first place is that the stressors of life are unbearable. the other way is to make a societal structure that caters to the needs of people instead of mega wealthy corporations that profit from the destruction of people's lives.
this world is not a utopia. i have worked with clients who had chronic schizophrenia who had chronic auditory hallucinations and wanted to take medication because it was torturing them. they were not stressed, they were in a stable environment but had chronic schizophrenia it exists. of course life stress plays a role in this. but i´m not saying this because i´m pro pills, but because i have seen how much it helps some people with the disease and who felt better with it. i wish it weren´t the case. btw i have pssd, so i am by no means pro big pharma. but there is a genetic component to schizophrenia. it´s not all black an white this this stuff. it´s grey.
I wonder how much it has to do with keeping them in a stress free, stable environment. It might not be the medication that is helping, but the environment they are in.
okay than go ahead and wonder :). the environment where i worked was pretty stable and each client had a social worker assigned to help them regain stability and a routine. they were given the opportunity to work at their own pace, to exercise in a group everyday. to cook together, etc. etc. some of them did not require a lot of meds to stay stabilized or free of hallucinations. but some of them absolutely did. one guy heard voices that were pretty evil and mean to him. he could not function without a certain dosage.
i don´t know and i honestly don´t care why people refuse to believe this, it´s not like i think meds are great. but what are you going to do with a women who thinks she is giving birth all the time and shits everywhere ? just let her shit until her rectum collapses ?
Was it a hospital or some other type of facility?
it was a a facility were people who couldn´t live on their own because of chronic mental illness were taken in until they were stable enough to live on their own again. some of them were there for decades some of them only for a couple of years. and i agree with the part that meds are not safe. i have seen the madness there, one dude had literally 30 medications they put him on, and he still had positive symptoms. but some of them really required it. i remember this one guy who had developed schizophrenia from legal highs and he was a different person without clozapine. couldn´t talk to him. no chance
In the US? Is it still open?
but there is a genetic component to schizophrenia.
https://www.madinamerica.com/2022/12/schizophrenia-genetics-illusion/
https://www.madinamerica.com/2023/01/hidden-valley-road-schizophrenia-genes/
i have had some very schizophrenic friends over the years , and yes . it does in fact exist
whether or not people are "better" on meds depends highly on the person. some can become very violent if left in their own brain while others are just "weird" in their own wonderful way.
It exists but the cultural interpretation of it, or even the nature of the symptoms varies from place to place. In places other than the US, there seems to he a higher recovery rate and hallucinations aren't as negative or foreboding. In certain cultures, schizophrenia and shamanism are 2 sides of the same coin with it being considered the birth of a healer.